What About Westerns?

[docraven]

Not much discussion on the forum about westerns. But there are some great ones out there. A number of people have mentioned THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY, a really good film, but in my mind not even the best Leone. Video copies of ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST are now hard to find in the original widescreen version which was available only on laserdisc. It’s a shame that most people see the VHS flat print (on TV yet). Anyway, here’s a list of favorite westerns:
My Favorite Western Films:
1. SHANE
2. ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST
3. THE SEARCHERS
4. PALE RIDER
5. BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID
6. RED RIVER
7. HIGH NOON
8. MY DARLING CLEMENTINE
9. STAGECOACH
10. UNFORGIVEN

[Johann]

Westerns are a great way to escape from the concrete jungle. The Searchers is incredible. I wonder who would win if Clint Eastwood and John Wayne met at high noon in death valley?
My money's on Blondie.

Westerns I really admire:

One-Eyed Jacks (You big tub of guts!)
My Name is Nobody
Tombstone
Two Mules For Sister Sara
Rio Bravo

and of course

BLAZING SADDLES (The sheriff is near!)

[HorseradishTree]

Hmm... I'd have to say that you're missing some things:

1. High Plains Drifter
2. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
3. Hang 'em High
4. Fist Full o' Dollars
5. The Shootist
6. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence

Yeah, that's about right. I'm sorry, but I just couldn't stand Stagecoach at all.

[docraven]

If you didn't like STAGECOACH, that's OK. It definitely is one of the great westerns, though -- the first, really, of the classic westerns, and the film that started John Wayne's initial rise.

The films you list are very good. You clearly prefer Sergio Leone's contributions. Some would say that's a whole different category, but Leone's films are quite a bit of fun. I still say ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST was by far his best spagetti western.

I also presume that you have seen the original version of A FISTFULL OF DOLLARS. It is far superior. I know, YOJIMBO is in Japanese, and you have to read subtitles, but it is really a great film.

[tabuno]

I usually hate Westerns being a city folk. I loved "Cat Ballou" with Lee Marvin, but the one Western I never get tired to watching is "How the West Was Won," which I saw originally in Cinemacope on the giant screen with three different sections put together. This epic Western covers so much ground and was so huge that I really felt the whole movie all the way through. Also on my list is "Dancing with Wolves" and even "Gettysburg" but I imagine that wouldn't qualify as a Western.

[docraven]

I suspect that westerns have become a genre of the past, and have been replaced by science fiction. They were, however, a prime genre in the forties and fifties, and even into the sixties. The conquest of the American West just lost its vitality with the public at large once Armstrong set foot on the moon.

Those old battles between the forces of civilization (the bank, the school, the law, towns) and the wild (the individualist, Indians, nature, open spaces) have been turned in the direction of the new frontier. But the battles are basically the same, with the real concern being within.

Westerns could be simplistic, but even in the simple struggle between good and evil there was often very fine acting and great filmmaking. I suggest you watch SHANE as if it were an historical piece.

Then, too, westerns might appeal most to those of us who lived through those years. I confess to that.

[HorseradishTree]

Speaking of science fiction, remember Oblivion ? Oy vey! That was pretty unbearable.

Er, yes, I have seen Yojimbo and enjoyed it, however the first scene was so eerily similar that it made me crack up.

[docraven]

The reason it "was so eerily similar" was that it was the original. A FISTFULL OF DOLLARS is the copy (and not nearly as good).

[cinemabon]

Shane (probably one of the best)

The Magnificent Seven (second best, great score by Elmer Berstein)

Duel in the Sun

Silverado (Great score by Bruce Broughton)

The Big Country (the classic showdown between two "proud" men)

Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (Burt Lanchaster)

She Wore A Yellow Ribbon (the whole trilogy!)

Destry Rides Again (Stewart and Dietrich)

How the West Was Won (great score by Alfred Newman)

McLintock! (silly, but a fun Wayne to watch)

and of course the standards, Red River, The Searchers, Stagecoach (both versions are interesting), Winchester 73, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, Butch Cassidy, etc....

Hallelujah Trail (another fun one)

Cat Ballou

Pat Garett and Billy the Kid

Bite the Bullet

The Wild Bunch

A Man Called Horse

Little Big Man

all those wonderful Clint Eastwood films with western locals...

Can you tell? I really love westerns...especially the obscure ones like all the B pictures made by Randolf Scott and Audie Murphy and Roy Rogers and even Wayne made quite a few...

I could go on and on with stars like Robert Mitchem, Jimmy Stewart, Walter Brennen, Andy Devine, Henry Fonda, and all the titles long forgotten: My Darling Clementine, The Ox-Bow Incident, Cheyenne Autumn, Broken Lance, The Man from Laramie, Broken Arrow, etc. etc.

[sansho]

The Searchers
Once Upon a Time in the West
The Wild Bunch
The Outlaw Josey Wales
One-Eyed Jacks
The Man who Shot Liberty Valance
My Darling Clementine
The Good the Bad and the Ugly
Johnny Guitar
Treasure of the Sierra Madre

(other essentials; Stagecoach, Red River, High Noon, Shane, The Naked Spur, Rio Bravo, Ride the High Country, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Little Big Man, McCabe and Mrs Miller, Dances with Wolves, Unforgiven, Dead Man)

[oscar jubis]

DEAD MAN (1997) Jarmusch
JOHNNY GUITAR (1954) Nicholas Ray
MAN OF THE WEST (1958) Anthony Mann
MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALENCE (1962) Ford
McCABE AND MRS. MILLER (1971) Altman
THE NAKED SPUR (1953) Mann
RANCHO NOTORIOUS (1952) Lang
RIO BRAVO (1959) Hawks
THE SEARCHERS (1956) Ford
SHE WORE A YELLOW RIBBON (1949) Ford

[wpqx]

I must say that I think Shane is one of the worst films of all time, but to each his own. My own list of favorite Westerns would be as follows.

1. A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (Leone)
2. Dances With Wolves (Costner)
3. The Searchers (Ford)
4. The Wild Bunch (Peckinpah)
5. Once Upon a Time in the West (Leone)
6. Unforgiven (Eastwood)
7. Three Godfathers (Ford)
8. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (Ford)
9. High Noon (Zinnemann)
10. Rio Bravo (Hawks)

[tabuno]

Definitely not a fan of Westerns, however, I have watched a number of times and with compelling interest, How The West Was Won. I feel that this epic, Cinerama experienced film was and continues to be one of the finest full-screen big motion picture westerns ever made.

[oscar jubis]

I thought the reply would never come. I waited over 13 months for it! Welcome wpqx.
My top 10 is dominated by movies from that 10-year span 1949-1958 when the genre reached its artistic peak. Canons are personal and subjective, but it's unique to find a spaghetti trilogy at the top. Even Leone would be a bit coy about that placement. Costner's film is well-intentioned but bland and in need of a trimming. I don't know about your viewing experience, but talking in general, I think it's obvious that westerns cannot be fully appreciated on home video. Unless the western masterpieces directed by Ford, Hawks and Mann are screened more regularly in theatres, I'm afraid they will be increasingly underrated by subsequent generations of film buffs.
Saying "Shane is one of the worst films of all time" is hyperbole, I hope. Otherwise, it's a decidedly extremist view.

[HorseradishTree]

You know, I keep forgetting about how much I liked McCabe and Mrs. Miller. I really ought to see that again.

Glad to see this thread revived. I recall having fun with it oh so long ago.

I finally got to see Once Upon A Time in the West, and I'm going to add it to my list. I really thought it was great. I'm going to put an updated list up here soon.

By the way, another one I caught recently was Unforgiven. Can someone please tell me how this won a bunch of Oscars? I don't think it was bad, but Best Picture material? No way!

[wpqx]

Its hard to explain exactly why I loved Dances With Wolves. I can't seem to find anyone who had a similar reaction. Flawed or not, I seemed to watch the film at a perfect time. I expected Hollywood trash, and maybe it was the underinflated expectations, but this film really connected with me. Perhaps I was just sick of old fashioned film attacking "savages". As for Shane, I hate it primarily because of the performance of Brandon DeWilde. My vote for worst child performance, aside from Mickey Rooney in A Midsummer Night's Dream (Eugggghhhh!!!!).
I would agree that Hollywood westerns were at their peak in the time you described, although I would extend it back a year and begin with 1948. In that year Ford made two rather important Westerns with Fort Apache (a rare pro-Indian), as well as The Three Godfathers (a personal favorite that no one else seems to acknowledge). That was also the year of Red River, which I'm not a particular fan of, but plenty of others like it. The second time I watched High Noon, it didn't hold up as well. It was a little too frustrating, and the more it puts me off, the bettter I like Rio Bravo. I'm also a fan of Winchester '73, and am certainly up for watching more Anthony Mann westerns. Man of the West has been sitting in my to watch pile for over a year, and I swear I'll eventually get to it. As for Leone, he is the shit. I think that A Fistful of Dollars has the greatest gun fight in movie history. If I had to pick though, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly would be my all time favorite Western, although The Searchers is coming up close. I also forgot Little Big Man, and decided that Treasure of the Sierra Madre didn't really count as a Western. As for Unforgiven it is a great film, although Malcolm X was certainly more deserving of an Oscar. Unforgiven was the rare film that actually showed the guilt of killing better than any other Western at least. I am also a big fan of Dead Man, which I think is the best Jarmusch film, but that may be another post.

[Raoul]

Dead Man is most certainly my favorite western of all time and I'm happy to see it at the top of your list too, oscar.

High Planes Drifter was terriffic as well: Gritty and kind of scarry. Some of Eastwood's best work, no doubt.

I also enjoyed the Beastie Boys track of the same name, off the album Paul's Boutique

Raoul

[JustaFied]

There was an article in the Times a few months ago about the popularity of High Noon in various White House administrations over the second half of the 20th century (and into the new century). Evidently the film's highly popular with the Bush Administration. Seriously. The lone sheriff wipes out the bad guys by himself because his fellow townfolk are too scared to fight. Sound inspirational?

[oscar jubis]

Raoul:
Dead Man is definitely one of my 10 fave westerns. I'm wondering how you feel about McCabe and Mrs. Miller, which has a similar sensibility.

JustaFied:
Carl Foreman wrote the screenplay for High Noon and was slated to direct until he got blacklisted for alleged commie "sympathies". Isn't it iro...?

[cinemabon]

Nixon's favorite was "Patton" which he would force the White House staff to watch over and over... I'm detecting a pattern here...

By the way, it was revealed that the person behind the "boat scandal" commercials against Kerry was the same person Nixon hired to pull dirty tricks 30 years ago in his campaign. Why doesn't the press jump on this shit?

[mikevan]

I dunno if I want to get into a position of completely defending Unforgiven (I've got some problems with it too), but I think it's worthy of mention. I liked the way it make sure that the deaths counted for something. (Think of the way Eastwood & co. were hesitant to kill from the cliffs overlooking the camp.) Even Hackman's line, "I don't deserve this. I'm building a house!," reverberated along those lines.

BTW, what did you think deserved the Oscar that year? 1992 included Reservior Dogs, The Player, One False Move, Crying Game, and a personal favorite, Light Sleeper. Not sure what was nominated that year, but just curious as to your thought.

And, Oscar Jubis, I'd agree with you on the films of Ford, Hawks and Mann. Lots of terrific stuff there, and I'd add a couple of Peckinpahs in there too.

[wpqx]

Malcolm X, best film of 1992 definitely.

[mikevan]

wpqx, so I assuming you see Malcom X as a greater film than Unforgiven?

[wpqx]

My statement makes that pretty obvious, as for what was nominated that year

Unforgiven
The Crying Game
Howards End
Scent of a Woman
A Few Good Men

In my opinion the Academy was a little off this year, as they are every year. Unforgiven is a great film, but Lee had the best movie that year, but like always he was denied any Oscar nod. Denzel should have definitely won as well, but we'll save that for another thread, which I think I already made here.

[gratefultiger]

1.The wild Bunch
2 once upon a time in the west
3 the searchers
4 the ox-bow incident
5.stagecoach
6.the good the bad & the ugly
7 the outlaw josey wales
8.theunforgiven
9.the man who shot liberty vallance
10 my darling clementine
11 red river
12 she wears a yellow ribbon
pretty standard bu i reckon #4 is the most underrated of all these films.

[wpqx]

good list, and nice to see someone else from the defunct http://www.foreignfilms.com Welcome to your new home.

[cinemabon]

The Ox-Bow Incident was a case of great short story being made into a perfect screenplay. Nice list and welcome.