Obama or Romney?

[Johann]

Did anybody here watch the Presidential debates last night?
Were you scratching your head as much as I was?
Obama seemed oblivious. Like he was winging it.
I was amazed that he didn't make chop suey out of Romney.

Something is up.

The uncertainty of who will win this election is mind-boggling.
Romney actually looked like he had life in him last night, a spark of some sort.
How Obama did not hammer him on who he represents and how that 47% of the populace that Mitt doesn't give a shit about are Obamas people is totally beyond me.
This is deja Vu all over again. Just like 2000, when Al Gore won the election.
We got 5 weeks to what?
Obama?
or Romney?
No one can say with any degree of certainty. And it makes me believe that the whole process is a sham and they are all in it together.
Are we being hoodwinked?

[Johann]

The lies that Romney spewed were astonishing.
I think Obama may have just let Mitt go off, so that in the next debate he can expose the GOP for what it really is.
Obama was calm and classy, but I feel he didn't attack Romney hard enough.
Attacking Big Bird?!
When PBS ISN'T receiving Federal money in any way?
It's simply STUNNING.

This guy takes the cake.
Romney is a work of art.
If Obama doesn't make mincemeat outta Mitt in the next two debates, then I don't know what to tell you.
Get Bill Clinton to give Barack advice on slitting your opponents' throat!
We want the FUNK!

[Johann]

Henry Rollins mentioned in a dispatch on his website that Obama was "presidential" during the first debate, and that Obama was not mentioning the colossal Romney gaffe of the 47% who mean zilch to him for a reason. He was letting Mitt hang himself with his own rope.
I understand that.
But why not go after Romney more "intellectually", hang him with his own rope and also with one that Obama tosses out?
Obama was measured during that debate, and I assume he'll be the same in the next debates.
We have to remember, we are not running for President. We are not in the Oval Office trying to stay there.
Obama is, and he's got his strategy. Let the man annihilate Mitt in his own way.


And the man who was part of that weird documentary The Queen of Versailles just publicly announced that if Obama wins then he will downsize his time share company. He actually sent memos to his staff that their jobs are at risk if Obama wins a second term.
Ain't that America?
Romney Inc?
Wow.
Just when you thought Americans couldn't be any meaner and dumber here comes the man who said he was responsible for getting George W. Bush elected.

I actually fear for Obama's life if he wins.
It's getting NUTS NOW.

[Johann]

Everybody should keep one thing in mind about Mitt Romney:

He was a former Governor, so he will make damn sure that the Government doesn't interfere at the State level if he wins the election.
Especially when there is so much money to be made.
That's Romney's version of "success".
Yep.
Romney & USA, Inc. *trademarked* copyright 2012 hashtag#YankeeGreedisaFuckingELEPHANT

The unemployment rate in America is a direct result of corporations taking advantage of tax breaks for moving plants and factories overseas.
So that 47% that Mitt doesn't care about are his former employees, people on the dole because their job went to China!
And you want the person you fired to be off the dole when you put them there? The government offers a tax break that you take advantage of and then you turn around and say "don't use the Government to help you after they took your fucking job away! You ungrateful layabout!!!!"

That's a special kind of inhuman fucktard.
That's Mitt Romney and his IGNORANT Mormon Kind.
That 47% will jump to an unknown number if Mitt wins.
And then cry in your Wheaties about jobs and debt. ha ha ha.
You can't see the forest for the trees, Republitards!

America will never recover if Mitt wins.
The Right believes that the Lefties will turn America into a Welfare Nation.
You're already there, America.
But the Lefties had nothing to do with it.
It was all Bush Baby.
And if it expands under Obama, so what?
At least you'll be healthy enough to Bitch about it on your golf course while sipping Cognac, right?
So shut your fucking trap and VOTE FOR OBAMA

[Johann]

Henry Rollins also said that it's rude to tell people who to vote for.
Yes it is. Very rude.
But when you have a choice between Glinda the Good Witch and The Wicked Witch of Bain Capital, you bet your LIFE I'm gonna yell at you to vote for the Good Witch.

If Romney and Obama were dead-even in talents, smarts and Presidential Jib, I would shut my mouth.
But this election is more important than any other in the History of the United States.
If you don't know that then you cannot be helped.
I can't even vote in America and I'm beside myself that America is even considering Romney as Commander-in-Chief.
It's absolutely INSANE that he even made it this far, after all of the gaffes he bestowed on the world.

The Biden-Ryan debate was a nothingburger.
I stopped watching after 20 minutes.

[Johann]

Nobody here has an opinion on this election?

A Canadian has more to say than Americans?
I know you don't like Obama Chris, but you can't like Romney either...
Do you?

[Johann]

By the way, re: PBS receiving Federal money- PBS gets the equivalent of one dollar per person per YEAR from the feds, and it is seed money for specific PBS stations in the USA- it says so right on it's official website. (It works out to 15%- mere peanuts. It won't affect the deficit at all)
So Romney saying he will cut funding for PBS is batshit insane.
It would have NO IMPACT on the national debt.
And the Muppets are owned by Disney.
Sesame Street doesn't generate revenue for PBS.

This would have been nice to point out to viewers during the debate. A super-fact-check would've set Mitt's lies straight and ended his candidacy for President.
I won't mince words: ROMNEY IS A FUCKING MORON.

[Johann]

Smilin' Joe Biden and Joe's Awesome Pearly White Teeth and Grin are trending everywhere, for those who follow that sort of thing...
Great. I love it actually.
At least Joe provides some levity during this insanely dire situation.

[oscar jubis]

I am "following" you here. Find your comments enjoyable, interesting, agreeable. I am your basic liberal somewhat afraid of a Romney win and betting that if he wins he will be more moderate than he presents himself, necessarily so in order to mobilize "the base" conservative Reps. In the same manner, Obama has governed more "moderately" than I would prefer.

[Johann]

Thanks Oscar. I was beginning to wonder if anybody was paying attention to the election!


Obama has been more moderate than desired.
But he's real smart.
What a shame it would be if Romney wins.
4 years would be down the dumper if it happens.
America will fully bottom-out if Republicans are back in charge.
Greed and de-regulations will put the final nails into what was left of America.
I can see it from Mars.

[Johann]

So Mitt has binders of women? That he didn't hire?
What other "groups" has he got binders full of?

Politicians with money offshore?
Blacks?
Gays?
Chinese?
Koreans?
Gerbils?
Touch of Grey headshots?
Ann Romney in many many sexually suggestive corporate poses?

I'm insanely curious.
Mitt loves binders.
They help him to be ignorant even more than Ann.

[Johann]

Can you tell I don't like Mitt Romney?
LOL

The President put Mitt in his place in the second debate. It was Glorious.
As Bill Maher said: Welcome back, BLACK NINJA.
I'm happy Obama won the election.

Yes. I'm saying it now.OBAMA WON HIS SECOND TERM!
I love America even more now.

[Johann]

That debate last night was definitively WON by President Obama.

The only thing you need to know now is that if Romney wins, America will go to war with Iran, and Romney has never made it clear to the people that that is his intent- to go to war to make money, just like Bush I did in the gulf and Bush II did in Iraq the second time.

America will be hit with yet another knee-jerk war that will cost billions of dollars and inummerable lives, civilian and military.

John McCain needs to go to an old-age home. He said the President was not classy or presidential in the last "town hall" debate and that America's foreign policy is in tatters. Really? And you think Romney was presidential? He was a fucking CEO, talking about binders of women he wanted to hire and stone-age ideas about jobs and the economy. How "presidential" can one be at a Town Hall debate?
Especially when Obama was criticized by myself and many others for not attacking Romney enough in the first debate, for not rolling up those sleeves and taking Mitt to the cleaners.

He cleaned Romney's clock in the last two debates.
Therefore he's EARNED HIS SECOND TERM.
CNN says today that Obama won both debates "but does it matter"?
What a dumb question.
Of course it fucking Matters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a dire situation here!
We cannot have a corporate swine bigoted piece of shit in the Oval Office.
NEVER. NO WAY.
Un-UH. No Way Jose.
You need a HUMAN BEING who can THINK.
And that is President Barack Obama.

I'm so happy he won his second term.
It was getting retarded there for a minute...

[Johann]

I bought a bottle of champagne to celebrate Obama's victory.

If Romney wins, I will know without any doubt that America is beyond Hope and always was.
The people want the U.S. to fail if they vote for Romney. That's the only explanation.
Because no rational human being would vote for that serial liar.
He has shown in TECHNICOLOR how out of touch he is and what a giant embarassment he will be as Chief.

The gaffes will come forth like a tsunami. The election gave us a torrent of gaffes, but the actual job falling on Mitt's head like an anvil will produce ASTOUNDING gaffes. Mind-blowing gaffes, the kind that Bush excelled in but even worse- Mitt will make you forget Dubya in two days.
The Republican party has tried to act like Bush never lived in the White House.
This economic situation is from BUSH policies.
If you do not acknowledge that then you are a fucking idiot.
Obama has been running around with a broom and dustpan for 4 years- and because he didn't clean it up fast enough (like a Slave!?!?!!?!)
people want to vote him out.

I don't remember any airplanes slamming into buildings during Obama's first term. (But I do remember him killing the Mastermind behind an act like that).
I don't remember Obama starting a war during his first term. (But I do remember him ENDING a war started by someone else in his first term).
I don't remember Bush giving health care to all Americans. (But I do remember his Mother telling the world that the poor are not her concern).
And I heard the exact same words out of Romney's filthy yap (on a secret videotape- yeah, TRUST MITT. ha ha ha)

I don't remember Obama surrendering a city to a natural disaster. (But I do remember Obama taking a BP oil spill more seriously than Bush did American lives in New Orleans).


I could go on and on.
The writing is on the wall.
If America wants to ignore it, then so be it.

[Johann]

Tagg Romney, Mitt's son, has apologized to President Obama for sayng he wanted to "take a swing" at him.
Isn't that cute?
This Mormon idiot showed his true colors and now he apologizes. Tagg said he couldn't believe that Obama intoned that Mitt is dishonest.

Pardon me while I laugh out loud for 15 minutes straight.

As someone said on the Yahoo newsfeed:

TAGG!?!?
What are the other family names in that cult?
You got Mitt, Homerr, Tagg, RBI, Walkk, Singlle, Buntt and FoullBall!

Fucking Retarded! You can't WRITE this shit!

[Chris Knipp]

Did you see this, Johann?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihd7ofrwQX0

Pretty lively.

[Johann]

Thanks for that Chris.

The U.S. election is just about over.
And on the eve of finding out who won, the uncertainty is mind-blowing.
This may be my final post here- if Romney wins, it will be.
My mojo has been missing in action for a long time, and if America elects the embodiment of the 1% as Commander-in-Chief, I'm done.
DONE.
I will vanish like Rimbaud's trackless cloud.
I just will not care anymore. It's that serious.
A Republican Canadian government and a Republican American government are two side-by-side nightmares that I will not abide by.
The Class War is on.
And it is unrelenting.
Brace yourself.

[Chris Knipp]

I can assure you I am voting for Obama. Obama or Romney? That's a no-brainer. You're right, I have never been particularly fond of Obama. I was not impressed by his vague "hope" and "change"campaign speeches. But given the dire situation he took on -- remember the headline in THE ONION, "BLACK MAN GIVEN COUNTRY'S WORST JOB"? -- and the concerted ultra-partisan Republican effort in Congress to block his every move, he hasn't done at all badly, in the areas where he chose to support the people and not the Empire, to which Obama is so dedicated.

The Empire moved forward, even as it declines. Don't forget that grinds on no matter who is president. In some key areas of foreign policy and civil rights the Obama administration has been as extreme as than George W. Bush's. The continuation of Guantánamo. Crackdowns on whistle-blowers, drone attacks, targeted assassinations. No need to ship uncharged prisoners to other countries to be tortured to death: just send a drone to kill them. That's the new policy under Obama. The chumminess with Wall Street is nothing new. Obama's lack of toughness against Republicans in Congress was a disappointment.

But Obama has delivered and been different from Bush in some important areas, as he has been pointing out in the last days of the campaign: economic recovery, health care, keeping his promise to abolish Don't Ask, Don't Tell." He has partially kept promises to make taxes more pro-middle class and anti-super rich. He got combat forces out of Iraq (but he made Afghanistan "his" war -- a pointless action). And he has carried out a lot of small, specific, important nitty-gritty changes that are positive -- and Democratic, not Republican. There are a ton of these you'll find listed here (ttp://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-kept/?page=1)(ten pages of items) -- though how they affect the big picture or even whether they are of any substantive effect may be hard to assess in many cases, they are all on the face of them at least, positive. If Obama has really personally been behind all these in many cases very local and specific improvements and can follow through on them, then his early experience as a Chicago neighborhood organizer may have helped him more than is readily visible.

Obama has eschewed the global climate change conferences, and thus America has failed to play its key high-profile role in this area. But when Mayor Bloomberg of New York City, now an Independent, announced his support of Obama as the better candidate in this area after the city's devastation in Hurricane Sandy, it really meant something. Obama may not have done much, at all to foster significant global action to reverse climate change, but he's not a climate change denier, and the Republicans officially are while the Democrats are not. The Obama administration has taken steps to encourage the use of renewable energy in a number of little "green" steps. However it's a mixed bag: Obama has been in favor of the gas pipeline from Alaska that environmental groups totally oppose. But Romney denies science, as Bush's administration did. Remember when Mitt Romney mocked efforts to "slow the rise of the oceans"? That joke's not so funny now, as this political ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZENtH3psXl4&feature=player_embedded) underlines, with brutal simplicity.

What in general Romney would do as President, God only knows. But I cannot envision ever voting for a Republican for President over a Democrat.

Besides this, I vote in California and there are a number of important propositions to vote on, notably important taxes and on the death penalty and the three-strikes law. Maybe our most important impact is to vote for local officials, city council members, school board members, judges. This is where elections affect our daily lives and our community.

So it' important to vote, of course, and important to vote for Obama, whatever one's reservations.

For a more negative view of Obama' look at Mark Stoller's "The Progressive Case Against Obama (http://www.salon.com/2012/10/27/the_progressive_case_against_obama/)." But even if he's right, that " there’s less of a difference between Obama and Romney than meets the eye," that's not a justification for voting for a third party candidate, or Romney, or not voting at all. We're stuck with voting the "least-worst" Ralph Nader opposes. But see what Nader says about this, see a YouTube video here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p-H8HKT5EQ)

[Johann]

Where did the notion of Obama and Romney being "dead-even" originate?
Who is gauging this?
There is definitely no option Chris.
You're correct, the Empire has moved forward, but if Romney wins, it will move forward like that decapitating machine in Caligula.
Americans seem to want it badly. Blows my mind.
The Dollar Over Humanity. That's the new American motto.
$$$$$ First, Country Second. Make me my money. God is Good and so is Greed.

I feel that Obama's foreign policy came from a sense that he'd better not be a weakling.
He'd better make sure he is strong on foreign policy. Ending a war appeases the left, and maintaining another war appeases the Right.
You'd think he has your vote, whether you are Republican or Democrat.
The President killed bin Laden.
What American would use that against him, saying his foreign policy was dead-wrong?
Even right-wing nutjobs would say "Go in there and kill bin Laden! Don't ask permission! No trial for that radical murderer!!!!!"
In fact, that's what most of them have been saying since the day those towers fell.
Obama goes in there like gangbusters- with no one's permission except that of his High Office.
Normally I would say "Where's the trial? In Manhattan?"
But I have no problem with that kind of justice if the intent was to send a message to al Queda.
And the message was sent loud and clear: President Obama will nail your ass to the wall if he wants to. He's no slouch".

People forget that. People ignore that.
I'm sick of it.
You want to rake in money at all costs and fuck everything else?
Eat it.
Burn it all Down.
Your Empire is crumbling still.
Into the Abyss.
Tasty Rhetoric today.
Tomorrow....we'll see.

[Chris Knipp]

Where did the notion of Obama and Romney being "dead-even" originate?

From a lot of polls. How can it be? Because people are voting for ideologies, not for people. Don't know what you're getting at there, but it does seem crazy that they're "dead even," I'll grant you. It shows presidential campaigns are without substance.


I feel that Obama's foreign policy came from a sense that he'd better not be a weakling.
He'd better make sure he is strong on foreign policy. Ending a war appeases the left, and maintaining another war appeases the Right.

Well, that's simple interpretation, but if true, the net result is zero gained.

As for "sending a message" to Al Qaeda, the best message has always been to ignore them, not publicly acknowledge its existence. I've tried to explain how Obama, like Bush, has been Al Qaeda's best recruter, topic of one of my political commentaries (http://www.chrisknipp.com/writing/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2129&sid=6e742f7d24b9ff760f0645e0c6b7367b).
The greatest recruiting program of all for terrorism is not any one activity but simply the US government's general policy, and ongoing status, of global dominance. But minding its own business has never seemed to be "on the table" as an American option -- anywhere. Recent news, and reports on Obama's own strongly pursued policies, the "Kill List" among others, suggest that "the self-serving anti-terrorist bureaucracy [Al Qaeda] helped to spawn" is, if anything, stronger than ever.

As I pointed out, Obama's "get tough" policy, no different really from Bush's, in some views (Nader's for instance) worse, his anti-terrorism campaign, kill all the suspects, (Obama's antiterrorism campaign: kill all the suspects) simply advances America's role as the No. 1 terrorist in the world. And so in foreign policy Obama is at least as blatantly immoral as Bush. You have "no problem with that kind of justice"? I do. A big problem. Killing Bin Laden would have been a good time to stop talking about America's 21st century equivalent to the 1950's "Red Menace," the "War on Terror." But the talk didn't stop. I discussed the issue of the killing of Bin Laden at greater length. (http://www.chrisknipp.com/writing/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1783) Is this the model of how a democracy functions?


And the message was sent loud and clear: President Obama will nail your ass to the wall if he wants to. He's no slouch" So this is the kind of testerone-soaked individual we want sitting in front of the missile takeoff buttons? How is this any different from Bush? What exactly is the threat to the US, which is more heavily armed by a factor of dozens than any other nation in the world? How about "getting gentle," instead of "getting tough," especially when you started out your administration with a Nobel Peace Prize?

[Johann]

Not testosterone soaked like Bush. But identical in that America's dominance must be preserved.
IS America's dominance not to be preserved?
Is that not the name of the game?

I always thought it was and always thought it will be.
You'll never have a President who doesn't stick his big stick in other people's business. The question is, do you want a human being doing it or a psychopath? Bush made money off war. Is Obama?
Is Wall Street backing him? or are they backing Romney? Every single newspaper I've read has said that Wall Street will make people BLEED if Romney doesn't win.

I heard on the radio today that Obama raised $900,000,000 for his campaign.

ROMNEY RAISED $4 BILLION.

WHO WILL WIN?
The suspense is killing me.


If you're suggesting that we get a President with absolute humanity and an ideology that lessens America's global dominance, that would have been nice to know years ago Chris.
Like, in 2000....

[Johann]

We saw what happens when America gets soft and gentle.

Airplanes slammed into buildings, killing 3000+
And the "softies" in the White House who let this happen were promoted and started a knee-jerk war.
And now they are knocking hard at the door to be let back in to do it all over again.
Yay.

[Chris Knipp]

I don't know what you're getting at. Calling the Neocons "softies" Irony, no doubt. But what is your point exactly?

Remember Chalmers Johnson, The Blowback Trilogy?

[Johann]

The neocons were softies until 9/11.
Then they became Monstrous money-grubbing war mongers.
But that's what they were all along. See Mitt Romney.

Obama is back for 4 more years. I'm in a state of bewilderment.
I'll be back in two weeks after I've recovered from this brutal election.
And I'm not even American.
Why do I care?
My point is what I typed Chris.
No comments on my comments? You don't know what I'm talking about?
I find that hard to understand.

[Johann]

Mitt Romney had no concession speech prepared.
Just like Nixon when he was impeached.
"I am not a crook!"

[Chris Knipp]

Good news that Obama won reelection.

I didn't know what you were talking about, no, when you assessed the (multiple) "causes" of 9/11 as the US being "soft." Is that what you really meant to say? Of course the US ought to have detected this plot, which originated in the US, apparently, or was staged from here, and blocked it from happening. But that was intelligence failure, and Bush's ignoring of warnings, not really being "soft." And as you seem to acknowledge, the neocons were really never soft. The Project for a New American Century laid the groundwork for Bush's various wars of Empire; 9/11 was seen by the neocons as the perfect pretext. If the US was more laissez-faire and offered more positive things rather than supporting dictatorships and setting up military bases, there would be fewer 9/11s. The overextension of the American military is something even many former Pentagon officials point out.

[Johann]

True.

I'm in recovery mode, so I'm not all there right now.
Hopefully it won't be long.
Obama's victory helps big time.
America, YOU MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE.
I can't thank you enough. You voted smart and I love you for it.
The President deserves a second term.

[Chris Knipp]

Glad you approve.

Was there a choice?

I didn't see any choice. We don't get choices.

[Johann]

We get many choices. Chosen for us.

:)

[Chris Knipp]

Indeed, that is very true. But to choose between Obama and Romney was not a choice.

[Johann]

Rush Limbaugh is whining that Republicans are outnumbered and were outnumbered in the election.
Bill O'Reilly says that it isn't a "Traditional America" anymore. That many people want "STUFF" and Obama will give it to them.
You rich Fuck.
You got your "salary stuff"- don't knock the poor for looking higher than food stamps.
Christians are whining that Republicans didn't get out the vote. Cry me a fucking river.

Glenn Beck is saying he's gonna buy up lots of guns and farmlands to protect himself from the Socialist Agenda.
Bye! You won't be missed.
Glenn said that if you want to find the people who are most like you and go camping with them to save themselves from the Socialopocalypse, check out the counties near and note how they voted. Near you. Your fellow fear-mongers are waiting to Flee ObamaLand in droves.

Yee Hah!
Get along little doggies!

[Chris Knipp]

Wouldn't it be nice if they all just went away and lived in some remote corner. But maybe not, if they armed and organized for a terrorist attack of their own, like Oklahoma City. I believe "socialopolypse" is your own original creation.

[Johann]

I was paraphrasing Glenn.
"Sociopocalypse" is a word I'll take credit for.

That's what the Right are barking about.
That's what I'll give them.
Tired of their stupid shit. LOL

[Chris Knipp]

I have to confess I read about what the right is saying more than I read or listen to what they say. Probably Noam Chomsky listens. He knows everything and follows everything. I think he's said he does, when he's in his car.

[Johann]

We'll see how Republicans re-adjust to the shellacking they just got.
When will they learn that money and ignorance are just not that awesome?

Donald Trump called the election a sham.
No, it wasn't Donald.
I was certain it would be though, I have to admit. I was certain Romney bought it, lock, stock and fucking barrel.
In fact, I was so sure he was going to steal the election I'm still in a state of bewilderment that America actually saw right through Mitt's scheme.
Thanks again. You put the right Man in the Oval Office again.
Better times are definitely ahead. You. Just. Watch.

[Chris Knipp]

I don't think anybody is going to go through a transformation. Obama will go on being too timid and the Republicans will go on being outrageous and getting away with it. Obama is already using the word "fiscal," which is the code word for budget-cutting and letting the economy tank again, just as the Right, for reasons I do not understand, want it to do. Well, one reason is that they want the Democrats to fail, at all costs. And of course screw the majority.

[Johann]

Taking off my rose-colored glasses for a moment, I have to say that the U.S. is facing an incredibly serious problem.
You can't spend the way Obama has been spending and have the deficit get higher and higher, while a gridlocked Congress raises the debt ceiling.

So Republicans can stop licking their wounds and start getting America on track.
Don't stonewall, don't whine, don't piss and moan. America voted, and you lost. Just like 4 years ago.
Get with the program.
You can pat yourselves on the back (like you love to do) when the country is back on a "fiscal" track.
A budget is still at least a decade away for the United States, but taxing the super-rich is a VERY sound plan.
Make these super-pac bitches PAY THROUGH THE NOSE.
Money isn't real anyways, so it's no problem.
The Rich Righties can suck it. You didn't lift a finger for your wealth. And you arrogantly look down on those who see you for what you are?
Eat Shit and Die.
I almost want the whole global economy to collapse so I can smile hard.
"We're in this together" isn't a catchphrase. You breathe the same air I do, Paco.
You think "classes" are necessary and that the human race should be segmented. There is a difference between a "mixed economy" and outright Class War. And the poor have had quite enough of it. There is no trickle down. The trickle stopped on 9/11.

Mitt Romney and his batshit insane idiot backers thought money was all he needed.
Nope.
You needed a soul, a clue, a brain, a plan, a Life, in short, a HUMAN to win the election.
Take note Republitards: Don't ever put a sad-sack piece of shit corporate clown up for President again.
If you do, we'll just laugh at you again.
And vote for Michelle Obama. (She will probably run right after her Hubby!)

[Johann]

I was speaking to all the rich fucks who think the world is ending with Obama's win in that last post.

And I'm speaking to you now: If I was a millionaire, I would know that many people helped me get it. That would be a given.
No man or woman on the planet made millions by themselves. In fact, that is my number one problem with a "free market" system:
I cannot make a million dollars unless I make someone else a million dollars FIRST.
I have to be "let in" to the club, so to speak.
Man's humanity has been waning for a long time, and with the Reich-Wing thinking money is the end-all be-all for the world's problems, we are starved for leaders with HUMANITY. The Leaders are usually are rich too (Obama is Richie Rich himself) but it is a small miracle that he includes ALL Americans in his plan for America. It's quite remarkable, actually. It's a real breath of Fresh Air.
It's something to celebrate.
Class War and divisions between "Americans" is a cosmic joke. I can't believe that people WANT that type of system,
that they embrace it with both arms, that they want to be partisan until they DIE.
Wow. Who raised you?
Orangutans?

One Nation. Under God.
Heh.

[Johann]

You know what I loved the most about the election?

Mitt Lost Michigan AND Massachusetts.

Thank you America. From the bottom of my Canuck heart.
You put an EXCLAMATION POINT on your choice for President.

[Chris Knipp]

Taking off my rose-colored glasses for a moment, I have to say that the U.S. is facing an incredibly serious problem.
You can't spend the way Obama has been spending and have the deficit get higher and higher, while a gridlocked Congress raises the debt ceiling.

So Republicans can stop licking their wounds and start getting America on track.
Don't stonewall, don't whine, don't piss and moan. America voted, and you lost. Just like 4 years ago.
Get with the program.
You can pat yourselves on the back (like you love to do) when the country is back on a "fiscal" track.

I guess you are just saying this to set up to say the rich must pay more taxes. You are an independent minded man, but I fear you are influenced by the right wing Harperites who surround you. Because the "fiscal cliff" is a myth, and the "deficit" is not a serious looming problem. I refer you to Paul Krugman, Nobel Prize winning economist, whose column this morning is called "Hawks and Hypocrites".

You'll find this column here. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/12/opinion/krugman-hawks-and-hypocrites.html?_r=0)

Krugman says in part:

It’s not just the fact that the deficit scolds have been wrong about everything so far. Recent events have also demonstrated clearly what was already apparent to careful observers: the deficit-scold movement was never really about the deficit. Instead, it was about using deficit fears to shred the social safety net. And letting that happen wouldn’t just be bad policy; it would be a betrayal of the Americans who just re-elected a health-reformer president and voted in some of the most progressive senators ever.

And he further says:

And then there’s the matter of the “fiscal cliff.”

Contrary to the way it’s often portrayed, the looming prospect of spending cuts and tax increases isn’t a fiscal crisis. It is, instead, a political crisis brought on by the G.O.P.’s attempt to take the economy hostage. And just to be clear, the danger for next year is not that the deficit will be too large but that it will be too small, and hence plunge America back into recession.

Deficit scolds are having a hard time with this issue. How can they warn us not to go over the fiscal cliff without seeming to contradict their own rhetoric about the evils of deficits?

This wouldn’t be hard if they had been making a more honest case on the budget: the truth is that deficits are actually a good thing when the economy is deeply depressed, so deficit reduction should wait until the economy is stronger. As John Maynard Keynes said three-quarters of a century ago, “The boom, not the slump, is the right time for austerity.”

This is an essential point to learn. We need more infusion of capital, not holding back. There has been too little of that, not too much.

[Johann]

"Deficit Scolds" are rampant, agreed. I am anti-fearmongering, so I read your post with great interest.

So essentially what Mr. Krugman is saying is that there is no deficit, that we can ignore it until the boom times come back, that it is not a problem whatsoever. There is no "fiscal cliff" to fall off of. Am I hearing him right?
That sounds a helluva lot like "KICK THE CAN FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD!"
The GOP is definitely guilty of milking the deficit fears, but is it a truly manufactured crisis? Really??
The deficit is not an issue aside from being a political football?

You believe that Chris?
China doesn't have to come knocking?
No budget for the United States is no problem until the next boom?

[Chris Knipp]

Deficit doesn't mean the same thing as debt for a family or an individual -- something which for a while Obama erroneously claimed. The situation is far more flexible for corporations or governments than for private individuals.

Krugman is not saying there is "no deficit," he is saying deficit is not the real worry now. That running a deficit for the richest country in the world is not anything to worry about now, that in fact a deficit is desirable because it will provide funds to stimulate the economy when it most needs stimulation. This is standard Keynesian economics. Pay off debts during boom times, spend during times of weak economic activity to stimulate growth. The fact that imposing austerity has only brought on more and more dire economic results during the current period of severe recession has been proven recently -- repeatedly -- in Greece and in western Europe. And yet they're imposing more austerity, most recently in Greece. They just don't get it.

This is not surprising. It's like in the old days when they bled people when they were sick in the belief that this got the sickness out. They bled them, and they got sicker, so they bled them some more. They got sicker, and weaker, so they bled them some more. Then they died.

Here in the US deficit fears and the invented "fiscal cliff" are used for one main purpose: as an excuse to impose a right wing agenda. Namely to take away the social safety net, to remove benefits for the poor and working class. The theory is that this will ultimately leave more money for the rich. This is not spoken of openly, of course.

Even that selfish goal is illusory, because austerity is bad for the economy generally, so few really benefit from it in the long run.

This is not a question of "no budget." There is always a budget.

Right wing claims that Social Security and Medicare are in danger and the money for them will run out are just excuses to eliminate them. Remember that the right has found they can lie, say just about anything, and people will believe them. Again this comes out of an ideological agenda, and also represents the dubious notion that cutting social services will provide more money for the rich. All that it surely does is create more suffering. Going back to an earlier time.

Obviously this is ideologically motivated, not fact- based. Nobody on the right is warning that we can't afford to go on building weaponry or funding wars, though they cost more than the social services. The biggest causes of deficit spending are war expenditures. This is never mentioned. "Cutting runaway government spending" means cutting social benefits. The real runaway government spending is never considered. The right has always talked in recent decades about making government smaller, while in fact spending lots of government money, on things like armaments that benefit their corporate cronies and feed the American empire.

Cutting back on empire -- eliminating some of those 800 military bases around the world -- is a form of "austerity" that could work, but is not considered. It could provide more momey to fund such things as green industry, projects to employ people repairing the US infrastructure, bringing wi-fi up to top first world levels, developing public transportation. Unfortunately, Obama is really a drill, baby, drill guy. He temporarily postponed the Keystone pipeline, then gave the go-ahead for a part of it.

[Johann]

I've always said that the economy will never collapse and you just explained why.
Thank you. Glad you read more newspapers than I do. ;)

So the Right will use this tagline of the deficit crisis for the next 4 years?
It will be their platform?
I wondered how a Nation can raise $4 Billion for a certain Republican candidate for President yet they can't work in Congress "fix" the debt in a constructive manner, with job creation or austerity or whatever.
They can't get on the same page to lift the Nation up and THEN impose ideological agendas?
YOU ALL SUCK! LOL
Your high ground is Gone. Wallowing clowns. LOL

What would I do without your clarity Chris?
You are omnipotent on certain days. Ha Ha

[Chris Knipp]

The economy could collapse, but the US economy doesn't seem in much danger of it. The danger is that Obama seems to believe these deficit hawks/scolds. He does not seem to be altogether perceptive about economics.

He just needs to read Paul Krugman's NY Times op ed column every Monday and Friday. Krugman keeps on saying the same things but nobody listens.

But CREDO just send out an email petition to Obama saying Listen to Krugman. Their petition letter begins with a quotation from Krugman:


"[S]tanding up to hostage-taking is the right thing to do for the health of America's political system. So stand your ground, Mr. President, and don't give in to threats."1 -Paul Krugman

Stand your ground, Mr. President.

1Their note is to Krugman's recent colulmn, "Let's Not Make a Deal," http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/09/opinion/krugman-lets-not-make-a-deal.html?_r=0

[Johann]

"Hostage Taking"- perfect words to describe the GOP.

Stephen Harper just used the words "fiscal cliff" in a speech about the United States.
So there you go.
It is a situation of taking hostages.
Right-Wingers are Terrorists.
They do not belong in Government.

[Chris Knipp]

Obama is already getting ready to "negotiate" on fiscal matters with the GOP, showing that he is as spineless as in his first term. His big electoral college win hasn't given him cojones -- or good sense. Even talk show hosts are saying "the so-called 'fiscal cliff.'" Everybody knows it's a myth.

[Johann]

One thing is obvious:

Keep Hawk Eyes on these Leaders Dammit!
They want you not to care. They hope you aren't paying attention.

Jim Morrison sang it: Your ballroom days are over Baby/Night is drawing Near

More than ever, watch these fleecers. It's your money they are paid with, and your vote they get it with.
It's the only power you have and they know it.
Don't let up on these egomaniacs. Because let's face it, to enter politics, you need an ego ten trillion times bigger than Lady Goofball's.
(and an eye for a purty federal pension after only "serving" a short term)
Make 'em earn it or never complain about Jack Shit.
Comprende?

You gave me some great advice a while back Chris.
When I asked "What can you do?"
You said "Write about it".
Indeed.
There is power in the written word.
In the beginning was the Word.
Words bring down Kings and Emperors with no clothes.

[Chris Knipp]

That's right. Eternal vigilance. And today's short attention spans -- no good.