Re: Comments about Best lists
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Originally posted by oscar jubis
The last two lists posted (ArpHagenbach and Mark Dujsik) represent film buffs at opposing poles. Arp's list contains a single english language film (the lovely Far from Heaven) and Mark D ignores there are films being made outside of Hollywood, California. Chris Knipp has a list for U.S.-made films and one for foreign-made (not foreign language like the Academy). Pmw's list is nicely balanced. I hope I like "The Son" as much as he does ( I loved Promesse and Rosetta). At least two call "The Hours" overrated; I'll wait 'til it wins the Oscar to do so. As usual, I'll wait a coupla weeks to post my list while I watch my faves again (to make sure). And, I have decided to listen to Mr. Dujsik and give "Signs" a chance, even though I didn't even like 6th Sense much. His choice of "Bowling" for #1 and inclusion of the underrated "Minority Report" are appreciated.
Another reason is that I have not seen most of the films on ArpHagenbach's list (I did see The Fast Runner, and well... let's not bring that up...). It's hard for me to see foreign films from my location, and of the few I did see, only Y Tu Mamá También made my honorable mention list. Anyway, 10 Best Lists are fun, aren't they?
The Hours is just mediocre and, as much as I hate the word, "overrated."
Re: Sixth Sense over Signs
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Originally posted by tabuno
On another note, Mark Dujsik deserves a lot of credit for being good at discussing movies. He makes sense and really knows how to get points across and take in and explore and expand on new information at the same time.
Hey, at least people here are open to discussion, as compared to the majority of folks over at the RT forums...
Sharing in a free discussion
One reason there are never two identical ten best lists is we all have different tastes, but another equally important one is that we simply don’t see the same movies. Of Mark Dujsik’s ten best I missed “Frailty.” I started to list the others from ten best lists in this forum that I hadn’t seen and I stopped at twelve. Most of these are somewhat odd choices, not occurring on many lists, but we all have those. “Russian Ark” is on a number of professional print critics’ ten best lists, but it has yet to open here. So it goes. Of the four NYTimes movie critics' ten best lists, I have missed about half of the movies listed on each. Living in NYC and going to film festivals gives you an advantage I don't have.
I agree that lists are fun. I like seeing lists people make of the ten worst, the ten funniest, the ten stupidest, the ten with the best acting, and on and on, though I like best rating for overall artistic merit and am happy to focus on that.
My ideal is not to see every movie, which would be impossible, but to see as many as I can that are truly worth seeing. It’s also valuable to see some bad ones, just as it’s worthwhile to hear bad musicians or watch (or be) amateur athletes, to appreciate those with the most talent, the most skill, and the most originality a little better. I also want to understand what's popular, whether good or bad, what expresses the times and what influences how people think and respond. And I’m happiest when a popular mainstream movie is really, really good.
Since we can’t see all the movies out there, it’s good that some of you see the ones I miss. That robs us of the level playing field film festivals and the Academy Awards arbitrarily set up for their juries and panels, but it’s not all bad. We can point to gems like “Pumpkin” that others miss.
Pardon my ignorance, but what are these RT Forums you are referring to, Mark?
Re: Sharing in a free discussion
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Originally posted by Chris Knipp
Pardon my ignorance, but what are these RT Forums you are referring to, Mark?
Rotten Tomatoes.
Be sure to see Frailty.
Oscar Jubis' long-awaited list
Thanks for reviving this long-lived thread.
Our tastes are very similar, yours and mine, as I had already noticed.
I like just about everything you have chosen to list that I have seen. I haven't seen 25th Hour, Sleepy-Time Girl (never even heard of it), Femme Fatale, or Trials of Henry Kissinger. I would have listed Catch Me If You Can and Chicago, and not put Minority Report in the top ten. In your foreign list I haven't seen Mari Iyagi or Millenium Mambo (or heard of them) or I'm Going Home. I'm not so keen on Spirited Away (but I should have seen the Japanese version), and I wouldn't rate Gangs of New York and Minority Report in the top category. There are some in your foreign runners-up that I haven't seen. I'd consider Va Savoir as being 2001.
I can't find anything at all to argue with you about, though: you've included many of my favorites.
This thread is too long now for me to keep complete track of, but I see that there are some interesting variations.
tabuno, who says she can't see a lot of the stuff we're talking about, has a very feminine list. Those who get to film festivals, like PMW, tend to include more exotica. Those who strive for hipness like a lot of the Village Voice critics like to throw in outrageous pop items like Jackass: The Movie. (But I haven't seen it; maybe it's amazing.) I like to work within the mainstream but throw in the exotica that I really believe in, such as What Time Is It Now? I'm surprised at the guy --Ricardo-- who said Talk to Her, Punch-Drunk Love, Bowling for Columbine, The Hours, and The Pianist were all overrated, but he shows signs of liking to shock. There's a chance of offending somebody with that list, though I've come to his way of thinking about The Hours. (Just as it ain't over till it's over, a movie ain't overrated till it's overrated.)
I also agree with the person (replying to tabuno ) who said this list-making is for single people without pets who've got lots of free time. I plead guilty on all counts. Even tabuno must plead guilty to squandering many happy hours contributing to these forums.
But as I've been saying, no matter how much time you have, you can't see everything other people see when they see it. For instance the San Francisco Bay Area where I live is a pretty good movie-going area but The Son is only now about to open here. And Spider just opened in Berkeley last week. I'd certainly have put it in my 2002 lists somewhere but it's too late now; the balcony is closed. So it goes in the chaos of movie-distribution-land.
Re: Oscar Jubis' long-awaited list
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Originally posted by Chris Knipp
Our tastes are very similar, yours and mine, as I had already noticed.
Maybe even more so: I think Igby, Confessions, Padre Amaro, and One hr Photo are solid.
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Sleepy-Time Girl (never even heard of it)
Jacqueline Bisset plays a Fla DJ once known as sleepy-time gal, now a Bay Area resident, who may not have enough time to tidy up the loose ends and Martha Plimpton, as the girl she gave up for adoption who longs to meet her (and a whole lot more in 94 mins). Chris Munch, the director, is best known for The Hours and The Times, the brilliant 70 min riff on the John Lennon-Brian Epstein relationship. It's out on video.
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I would have listed Catch Me If You Can and Chicago, and not put Minority Report in the top ten.
Allow me a few comments about MR, the one film to significantly improve in my estimation after a second viewing . The film does require a suspension of disbelief ("3 oracles deliver their auguries in the form of coloured wooden balls"The Guardian). Its narrative thrust prevents deep analysis at times, some ideas are underdeveloped. This is an ambitious film with recognizable flaws. The second viewing is recommended because Spielberg gives us more to look at than we can possibly absorb. I suddenly noticed the riches it offers. Samantha Morton evoking both Falconetti's Joan of Arc and 2001's Star-child. The prescience and import of addressing the issue of pre-emptive justice. The way it makes you realize the intrusive, assaultive nature of advertisement and how we become increasingly tolerant of it. The way-cool vertical freeway chase scene. That astonishing spiderobot search for Mr. inside a dwelling. Spielberg having a " Cronenberg moment"? Our hero trying to retrieve his eyeballs before these roll down into the sewer. There's more, and remember MR would be close to #20 if I combine lists. It is not a masterpiece.
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In your foreign list I haven't seen Mari Iyagi or Millenium Mambo (or heard of them) or I'm Going Home. I'm not so keen on Spirited Away (but I should have seen the Japanese version)
The Japanese language Spirited Away is not significantly different. Actually the dubbed version allows more time for your eyes to marvel at the animation It may be where we part company, Chris. Mari aka My Beautiful Girl is also an animated fantasy/romance/coming-of-age, but more melancholy and spare. I imported the dvd from Asia with thoughts of reselling and couldn't part with it.
Millenium Mambo is like a sedate version of Kar-Wai's Chungking Express. I waste no opportunity to hail director Hou-Hsien from Taiwan although I fear ridicule. Many don't know what to do with the time and freedom he gives us to decide what to look at and where the story is. Hou is the least manipulative narrative filmmaker alive. The Puppetmaster is his most accessible. Flowers of Shanghai is an absolute must for Barry Lyndon fans.
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I'd consider Va Savoir as being 2001.
Maybe I should edit my 2001 list to include it.
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I also agree with the person who said this list-making is for single people without pets who've got lots of free time. I plead guilty on all counts.
Long time ago, I decided to sacrifice an hour+ of sleep daily to the cinema gods.
Distribution/Modern Classics?
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Originally posted by Chris Knipp
the only towns that really get most of the openings are NYC and LA, not San Francisco.
Absolutely, but I think that larger cities like SFA that attract new immigrants provide more opportunities to sample foreign fare than smaller cities with less fluid migration patterns, like Pitt. For instance, I've attended screenings here in which I am practically the only non-jew, or non portuguese-speaker in the room, or part of a hetero minority. I'll tell you another advantage, you can walk into a store and buy any Chinese film released in the past 5 years, maybe Miseenscene cannot.
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As for "lasting classics," that's not really something you can be clear about till later. But The Pianist and Catch Me If You Can will stick around a while in my opinion, and Y Tu Mama Tambien is a classic.
I concluded the 2002 classics have subtitles. Otherwise, Bloody Sunday and The Pianist have the best chance in my opinion. I kinda feel bad that the best known holocaust film to date has an Aryan for a hero. Maybe I prefer the film with a Jew for a survivor.
Y Tu Mama Tambien is so graceful, seemingly effortless, light yet rich, both a sex farce and a neo-realist road flick. Like a horny Jules et Jim con chile.
New York moviegoing nostalgia
You may like this piece about the decline in Big Apple moviegoing experiences from Molly Haskell, Andrew Sarris's wife, from the March 14, 2003 New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/14/movies/14MOLL.html
It is certainly true that projection has declined. The people up there don't know what they're doing half the time and hardly care.
