Eve of Destruction

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Originally posted by Raoul
Gee, you think people might be telling the truth? Is this a foreign concept to you? It's not always a good idea to file a libel suit. In general people don't like lawyers and would rather spend their time doing nearly anything else than court. Also, if they lack the resources, they're kind of stuck. But you're a smart guy, I don't have to point that out to you.

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If all those books in that section of Amazon.com are telling the truth then there is no such thing as truth. The books are mutually contradictory.

In libel suits, you never lack the resources. Attorneys, if the case is any good, take these on a percentage of the settlement. Besides, the people being targeted by these political books are all persons of means.

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Originally posted by Raoul
gee, teach. do i get a gold star too? That was a re hash of the main points of the soviet doctrine. Pleas explain how you think that's relevant in this forum.

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It was not Soviet doctrine! I'm employing sarcasm to argue against the conspiratorial logic of your's, Moore's, and Johann's position.

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Originally posted by Raoul
grow up. your attitude is the type that hinders progressive change. Just because a guy doesn't endorse any major political parties, he's a conspiracy nut? Your stupidity is really starting to show, buddy.

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No. Because a guy thinks the Democrats and the Republicans are colluding and because a guy buys into Moore's theories suggests he is buying into conspiracy theory. Now true, to an extent, I'm starting to blur the distinction between your arguments and Johann's... it is after all Johann that brought up the Skull and Bones deal... but, I still think it holds true for the types of positions you are advocating.

So what about Skull and Bones, then?!

Do you not acknowledge that that group is bent on world domination?

Do you not recognize that the Bonesmen are an elite (in their own minds) group of "smart" men who have no other purpose than ACHIEVING WEALTH AND POWER?

How thick is your skull?

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Originally posted by Johann
Another point about the National Guard service:

James Bath was Bush's co-pilot.
His name is blacked out on the white house-released document.
Michael Moore already had a copy of the original, and kindly tells us why the name was blacked out. Because people might find out that James Bath is in neck-deep with the Saudi's, placed there by Mr. George W. Bush. (his good buddy). Osama Bin-Laden is a Saudi, in case you didn't know, Ken.

See the film- it's all there on screen.

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First of all, again nothing new but I bet all these facts were new to you when you first watched F9/11, eh?

Second, your point? Do you find it unusual that a businessman who owns an oil company had extensive contacts in Saudi Arabia and even had a contact person to deal with the Saudis? Do you find it unusual that a businessman would find a job in his company for an old colleague from his days in the National Guard? Please do go on... I can't wait until you link Bush with the Bin Ladens directly; that's when the shit really hits the fan...

This dialogue is hilarious- and you are the source of it.

When Bush was told of the 9/11 attacks, he sat there for 7 full minutes. What was he thinking?

He was thinking: "Who screwed me?"
He knew only one person did it: Osama.

The whole world quickly learned his name. Bush had to jockey pretty fast to get everyone to direct their anger at an enemy.

I did only learn of all of this shit at one film. And I believe the majority of what Moore points out. It's too logical. It makes too much sense.

He's absolutely right, and the picture is grim.

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Originally posted by Johann
So what about Skull and Bones, then?!

Do you not acknowledge that that group is bent on world domination?

Do you not recognize that the Bonesmen are an elite (in their own minds) group of "smart" men who have no other purpose than ACHIEVING WEALTH AND POWER?

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Oh yes I do. They're the American branch of the Illuminati, didn't you know? Skull and Bones is a powerful group, involved in all the major evils of the past century: Iran Contra, the Drug Trade, the Assassination of JFK, the Vietnam War, and now the Iraq War. These guys are bad news. The people of this country need to go down to Yale right now and insist that the society be disbanded or at least banished from the campus.

Your posts speak for themselves.

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Originally posted by Johann
This dialogue is hilarious- and you are the source of it.

When Bush was told of the 9/11 attacks, he sat there for 7 full minutes. What was he thinking?

He was thinking: "Who screwed me?"
He knew only one person did it: Osama.

The whole world quickly learned his name. Bush had to jockey pretty fast to get everyone to direct their anger at an enemy.

I did only learn of all of this shit at one film. And I believe the majority of what Moore points out. It's too logical. It makes too much sense.

He's absolutely right, and the picture is grim.

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Well, I'm glad you've been critical and scrutinized the information carefully. Kudos for a job well done! It's always best just to accept the first thing you hear; far more efficient way of learning anyways. Who needs to concern themselves with all that bullshit of reading books, articles, and divergent opinions? Better just to rely on one's sixth sense and the everyman, Michael Moore. Also, psychic abilities to read minds always comes in handy too.

I can't rely on news media to give me the truth.

Michael Moore is the best thing we've got right now.

As far as I'm concerned anduril until you see the film you're out of your league (but you'll just be stubborn- I can feel it).


You can insult Moore all you want- you just make him more right.

What hurts you so much that you have to say what you have been saying here?

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Originally posted by anduril

If all those books in that section of Amazon.com are telling the truth then there is no such thing as truth. The books are mutually contradictory.

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i see. You've read all of those books, i suppose.

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In libel suits, you never lack the resources. Attorneys, if the case is any good, take these on a percentage of the settlement. Besides, the people being targeted by these political books are all persons of means.

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you're not wrong, attorneys will work on contingency. To sue someone for libel it costs about a year of a lifetime (at least) and unmeasureable stress. What's your time worth?

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It was not Soviet doctrine! I'm employing sarcasm to argue against the conspiratorial logic of your's, Moore's, and Johann's position.

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sounded lots like the hammer and sicle doctrine to me. i still don't understand what you're trying to prove. For the record, sarcasm is easily recognized by one's tone of voice. I just can't pick yours out between the pixels. Try writing to the point next time, we'll see if we can't get somewhere.

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No. Because a guy thinks the Democrats and the Republicans are colluding and because a guy buys into Moore's theories suggests he is buying into conspiracy theory. Now true, to an extent, I'm starting to blur the distinction between your arguments and Johann's... it is after all Johann that brought up the Skull and Bones deal... but, I still think it holds true for the types of positions you are advocating.

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gee, an expert. Who was it that gave you lisence to categorize our positions? Never mind. Again, to clarify your distortions, I never said that the Democrats and Republicans were in collusion. I only said that they have the same goals, and they do.

Do yourself a favour and start reading before you count yourself as an expert.

Raoul

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Originally posted by Raoul
i see. You've read all of those books, i suppose.

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Do you need to read all those books to know that they are mutually contradictory? Let's just pull out two titles: Lies: The Liberal Lies about the American Right by Ann Coulter and Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balance Look at the Right by Al Franken. Somebody's pants are clearly on fire here... and that's just two book titles.

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Originally posted by Raoul
you're not wrong, attorneys will work on contingency. To sue someone for libel it costs about a year of a lifetime (at least) and unmeasureable stress. What's your time worth?

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So, what you are saying then that it is not surprising that Michael Moore has not been sued? You'll have to excuse me if I'm starting to get a little confused.

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Originally posted by Raoul
sounded lots like the hammer and sicle doctrine to me. i still don't understand what you're trying to prove. For the record, sarcasm is easily recognized by one's tone of voice. I just can't pick yours out between the pixels. Try writing to the point next time, we'll see if we can't get somewhere.

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Oh, I see. I didn't realize that you actually believed that the Jews were out for world domination before WWII, which was a statement I made in that post. Hmmm... that would have been a clear indication of my sarcasm if the twenty-three points weren't enough. Guess, I'll have to give you less credit next time. I'll try to dumb it down some in future posts.

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Originally posted by Raoul
gee, an expert. Who was it that gave you lisence to categorize our positions? Never mind. Again, to clarify your distortions, I never said that the Democrats and Republicans were in collusion. I only said that they have the same goals, and they do.

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My apologies I assumed that when you commented on how the Democratic Senators failed to rescind the Supreme Court decision that you were implying collusion. But, now I understand: both parties are working independently towards the same goals. Got ya now. That clears it all up. Its sort of how the gas companies work independently to raise the price of gas. Not really collusion... just looks that way. Hopefully, you can understand where my confusion arose.

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Originally posted by Johann
I can't rely on news media to give me the truth.

Michael Moore is the best thing we've got right now.

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Yeah, God forbid you should spend anytime outside a movie theatre and maybe do some of your own research on the topic. What a horrible waste of time that would be? Much better to live vicariously through movies; its easier too, I suppose. You can just place your trust in pure and unadulterated honesty, humanity, and goodness of directors, actors/actresses, and the entire, worldwide movie industry.

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Originally posted by Johann
As far as I'm concerned anduril until you see the film you're out of your league (but you'll just be stubborn- I can feel it).

You can insult Moore all you want- you just make him more right.

What hurts you so much that you have to say what you have been saying here?

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You think I'm hurt and you care enough to ask... that's sweet, Johann. Are you saying we're still friends? That would be really special of you.

Until I see the film I'm out of my league, eh? That statement would require you to prove that there is significant information in the movie that I presently lack. Furthermore, it presupposes that you believe yourself to be in a superior league to which I should aspire and yet you've admitted that nearly everything in Moore's film was news to you and that you have done no real significant additional research into the topic. That's a strange league that I'm supposed to join.

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Originally posted by Johann
I can't rely on news media to give me the truth.

Michael Moore is the best thing we've got right now.

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You mean he's the only person who has theatrically released a documentary on the issue that you went to see. Personally, I make a point of checking and researching the sources on my own and you know what, the Internet lets you do a pretty bang up job without even leaving your home. You can read official reports, check out left-wing and right-wing opinion sites, consult all sorts of reference works, check out databases compiled by numerous individuals and NGOs, visit the official websites of the good, the bad, and the ugly in this whole situation, read dailies from nearly every major network and news organization in the world, etc. etc. etc.

Sarcasm: Truely, it's a shitty way to make a point. It's tiresome, it's sloppy debating and subpar writing. In text form, it's difficult to tell when you're turning it on and off.

If you're any sort of writer, debator or holder of opinion, PLEASE learn to express your views by writing to a point. Frankly, it makes you look bad.

Al and Anne have decided to take it to eachother on the pages and airwaves rarther than in court. Eventually, it's possible that a suit for libel may be launched. I haven't read either book, but just because they're pointing fingers at eachother and calling eachother liars doesn't mean they aren't both right. Are they on the same subject?

"Out of his league" may not be the best choice of words, but I agreee that if you haven't seen the film, you're ignorant to make comments about its content. Let's be reasonable.

Also, let's be clear. There seems to be a stigma that calling someone a conspiracy theorist immediatle and completely refutes all of their claims. It's as though when someone alleges that two other people or parties conspired to do anything, they must be a complete nutjob. Why is that? Has this never happened in the history of civilization, politics or man?
Pease explain and see if you can do it with your tounge out of your cheek.

Raoul