My favorite movie

My fave movie in the whole world is "The Thing" by John Carpenter. After having seen this movie, I kind of set up a system to see if any other movie of it's ilk could take it on. Although there are some cool contenders like "The Hidden" and "Andromeda Strain", and so forth, I really think this one can't be beat if you use the 8 reasons why I think this one is the best. I've been waiting for one to come along, but so far it hasn't. If you've seen an amazing horror film, perhaps you'll tell me why it's a contender--but beware the checklist below which is undeniably harsh in criticizing would-be contenders!

For me, The Thing is unquestionably the best science fiction / horror flick of all time, and I can explain why. First of all, the story is fantastic, based on "Who goes there" by John W. Campbell and adapted by Bill Lancaster. Although made into a movie earlier in 1951, the first shot at making the movie simplified the story and had a creature that was much different than the one envisioned by Campbell.

The latest version captures the claustrophobia and paranoia of the story it is based on, and in my view, improves upon it. The cast is magnificent. You just don't get top notch actors like this working together with such incredible chemistry in your average monster pic. There is always the actor you wind up going "why in the world is HE/SHE in this movie?" about, always a weak link.

Not so here, where everyone gives stellar performances, the characters act like real people would in their situation and the photography by Dean R. Cundey and direction by John Carpenter are amazing.

And let's not forget the jaw-dropping special effects by Rob Bottin and Stan Winston, which hold up as good or better than just about any computer effects I've seen. Below is the criteria for which I judge all horror and sci-fi movies now, and this movie gets a 10 in every category. Can you think of another one that can?

1.Story / Adaptation: True to original, excellently written. the script begins eerily and escalates to a fantastic climax.

2.Direction: Truly creepy and claustrophobic with scary hand held work and disturbing camera angles and movements.

3.Acting: EVERYONE is good here, not one even halfway lame performance. The actors act like real people would, and work really well together to create a believable atmosphere.

4.Photography: Beautifully shot by Dean Cundey, the film makes you feel cold it's so representative--which brings me to...

5.Location: External shots were done on location in British Colombia, lending a believable arctic quality to the feel of the film. Internal shots were done on a refrigerated set to mix seamlessly with the feel of the outdoor stuff.

6.Music: Score is haunting, fitting, and used well. Also, it's done by veteran film guy Ennio Morricone...what else could you ask for? Bernard Hermann wasn't around!

7. Special effects: Innovative to say the least, this Thing really LOOKS scary. You don't want anything that looks like that coming near you! Realistic blood, believable wounds, it's...well...great.

8. Ending: I would mention the ending here, but that would be lame. Just as well, though, as it is terrific. Let's just say it's very "Non-Disney".

Well, that's my list of why it wins as the best sci-fi horror flick of all time for me. I've seen lots and lots of 'em and it STILL tops the list even after years and years. I'll keep looking for a better one, but it seems to me they just don't put the kind of bank into making them like they did with this one anymore, and even if they did, the chances of getting all eight of the above as good or better is going to be quite a feat.

Strangely enough, the first time I saw "The Thing" director by John Carpenter, it was the scariest movie I had ever seen based on my reaction after I left the theater. I was physically shaking. I recently saw a television version broadcast on satellite on TNT or Sci Fi channel which had a dumb voice-over narrative and the music seemed different as if to try to copy the original version in some way. I'm wondering if there isn't two versions of this movie. Anyway, I agree that "The Thing" is a magnificent movie, especially the version which I'm assuming John Carpenter scored the music.

"Alien" however, fit the your criterion that you set in many ways. Directed by Ridley Scott whose next movie would be Blade Runner, has an extensive history for layered detail in his movies. Even Ripley's underwear had the name of the corporation sewn onto it.

1. The story, while simple, set a true landmark in the chest bursting scene, just as remarkable as The Thing with the innocent dog. Both movies had a group of average people, in fact, Alien had even a more pedestrian group of people on a mining ore transport mission as opposed to the scientific expedition of The Thing. Alien had the classic corporation mole on board for weapons research, except the mole is in the mold of 2001: A Space Odyssey. As with The Thing, Alien characters have to fight to survive but with Alien, the people we can identify with are not scientists, but crew members more like the average audience member. With a female in the lead character, this story breaks new ground for an intelligence female role who is also sensitive, who even likes cats.

2. The direction as with The Thing has the characters, mostly unknown actors, again which allows us to become more attached to these people as real people because they are just people. This movie set new standards in its use of outerspace, innerspace set design, light and shadow, and strobe lighting that subsequent movies would copy. From the opening scenes of the Nostromo, the air pressure flipping of pages of log book and white coats to the darkened dungeons of the machinery cooridors - to the trek to the alien spaceship with the increasing static of the comlink, the alien sunrise - all these little features gave rise to an increasingly isolated, helpless foreign experience that brings up echoes of our nightmares.

3. Acting - Ridley has these people acting as real people in a frightening situation. Rumor has it that Ridley used real animal blood in the chest bursting scene. There are many subtle, non-verbal acting behaviors in Alien, relying more on acting than dialogue to make its point. From Lambert moving away from the medical window because she's mad at Ripley to Dallas having to fumble around with his headset in the ventilator shaft, there a great uses of naturalistic acting here that make this movie one of the best in terms of realism.

4. The photography is on both an epic scale, the scene of the alien planet, the alien craft using H.R. Giger's strange outlandish images, the blast of heavy heat of the last scenes, the steam, and the sharp images of the small mess hall bring to life this whole frightening story.

5. Location is both the silence of outerspace where no one can hear you scream, the foreign planet, the alien space craft of gigantic scale, the Nostromos - we are caught in within the confines of a limited space of an ore mining station. The use of location, the medical pod, the kitchen, the pilot station, the mother/computer room, the cooridors, the clanking storage hangers (with cat-like spitting surprises) all achieve maximum effect of realistic variety in a confined space.

6. The music by the well known Jerry Goldsmith again has been copied in future movies, its haunting, pulsating, ominous music lends terror and building tension throughout the movie.

7. The effects of this movie is its reliance on believability - the mechnanics of realism - as streamlined and sleek as 2001: A Space Odyssey, Alien was dank, dirty, and ugly in its oiled complexity - its clean medical white room, and its natural but futuristic kitchen. The alien planet, the space ship, the landing craft, the whole effect of doomsday devices, did not overwhelm but only lent more realism to the movie, capturing our imagination. The amount of effects required of Alien outstripped that of The Thing in the number and complexity of its scenes.

8. The ending was more and more intense, kept building, even more so than The Thing...its American ending much more in line with the populist public. The ending was classic horror with the surprise lurking in the hidden chambers of resolution which The Thing did not have. The Thing ended more like The Invasion of the Body Snatchers - with an ominous, uncomfortable feeling of future impending doom - of a creature who may still be frozen in our midst.

Okay, I'll certainly concede that Alien DOES hold up to the criteria I'm setting down to judge other movies than The Thing, which we've seen I'm disgustingly biased about.
Everything you said is pretty much on the level, I would add that the coolest thing about the sets was their dark, beat-up, worn and pieced-together look, which is such a departure from your squeeky clean spaceship nonsense we're always seeing.
I heard the animal blood--I'm told it's pigs blood--story years ago and movie types I know swear it's true and that the only person in on the trick was actor John Hurt.
The coolest thing that ever happened in regard to The Thing was seeing the movie at the Egyptian Theater in Hollywood in the company of it's director, John Carpenter and getting to ask plot point questions I can no longer hope to have answered by Bill Lancaster as he's dead. As a closing note, I'll say that not only does Alien hold up to all the criteria I've set here, it's also one of the scariest movies I've ever seen. Like you, I was actually almost physically shaking after my first viewing of The Thing, and I'll never forget how realistic and frightening that first viewing was to me. At times alone on dark nights with candles lit watching the DVD I get that same feeling all over again.

I'm...I'm...speechless...

All right, due to your prompting, I dutifully watched Alien for the gazillionth time and came up with some interesting new insights on it after not having seen it for years. I found a few major flaws that set The Thing apart from Alien.
First of all, I'm going to seriously have to take it to task for suspension of disbelief. When I saw Ash let the Alien into the ship, violating quarantine regulations and overriding Ripley, I said to myself "Well, that makes sense because he's revealed to be an android later and is following Company orders to retrieve the Alien specimen".
There the believeability ended, however. There is no way in hell a bunch of spacebound miners would think it was a good idea to splay Kane out on the medical room's table and stand around gawking at an Alien life form that has a snake-like tail constricting around his throat, especially without weapons of any kind!
This is further compounded by the fact that after they decide to cut it off instead of isolating it or putting it into suspended animation (as Parker believeably suggests), it bleeds acid blood through several decks of the ship, and still they think it's a good idea to let it just hang out inside the ship with them!
Any gearhead or blue collar miner like the Parker, Brett, or Dallas characters would have jettisoned the Alien off the ship at that point no matter what. Instead, the crew risk further infection and possible hull breeches by just letting the Alien sit in the med room attached to Kane's face while they go to sleep! Given the fact that they are keeping an acid-bleeding creature they know nothing about on their ship in a loosely secure situation attached to one of the crews faces it's a wonder that they even can go to sleep.
But it doesn't stop there. The next day, when it's discovered the creature has removed itself from Kane's face, Ripley, Ash, and Dallas enter the med room, and LEAVE THE DOOR WIDE OPEN for a couple of minutes at least before shutting it. They then proceed to search the whole room without any weapons to defend themselves.
I don't know about you, but the idea of sealing myself up in a room unarmed with an acid-bleeding Alien life form that was previously attached to another crewmembers face with a tube sticking into his throat doesn't exactly make a lot of sense.
I'll leave it at that, but you certainly don't catch anything like that happening in The Thing. EVERY character in that film--even if he is a Thing himself--fears and runs from the monster at all times. And because of the nature of the beast, of course nobody trusts anybody.
The next thing I couldn't swallow was the lousey use of Ash's fake head in several shots. For god's sake you can tell it's ridiculously plastic! They should have either used the fake head the whole time with some kind of animatronic action or just have Ian Holm's head sticking through the table like they do and leave it at that. The two scenes / heads don't cut together at all.
I also kind of didn't like the blinking Christmas tree lights all over the wallls and ceiling of Mother's computer interface chamber. The Ralson Purina logo on the sleep chamber, however, was just fine.
These are, however, the only things that bugged me about the movie (just don't know what to think of the rolled-up-newspaper-mouth thing with Ripley and Ash, I'll leave that to the psych majors I guess), and I will stress that up until now only the fake head thing every bothered me. I certainly will say that the first multiple times I watched it, Alien delivered as a sci-fi horror film on a whole new level, and is to be commended for this, as well as the direction, writing, acting, and many other fine qualities. It took two years for another to blow me away like it did, and it's obvious which movie that is by now with my obsessive babbling about it! Just a few points I had to throw in there after my long delayed re-viewing. Mark my words I still love Alien and consider it among the greats of it's genre, truly a pioneer in the sci-fi horror arena.

While I understand the apparent plot flaws in Alien, I believe that in hindsight, your rational, logical approach to plot development that appears to be based on a movie formula while valid, doesn't necessarily make the Alien movie flawed as such. The small details in Alien are subtle from Ash's look of concern just prior to the chest burster scene to Brett's taking off his hat while looking for the cat are details that even The Thing doesn't have. I wish I had time to watch Alien over again. There's a lot going on and the interestingly enough I thought the acting and directing were such that I geniunely felt that the plot flowed in a way that I believed could happen. I loved the way Dallas took time to close the door to the medical lab, because it is the exactly something I would have done because I wouldn't have thought of that and the way they reacting to each other when looking up to the ceiling was fascinating acting. When I have the time, I will try to respond to your valid concerns, because they do represent questions that I feel deserve further exploration.

I shucks...I can't wait...this is what I have so far in regards to your last post that I was developing (work in progress):

Your critical observations of "major flaws" from Alien are arrived at after watching Alien for the "gazillionth time." And hindsight is one of those wonderful critical ways people have to find fault with many things, as for example, the complete fumbling efforts of the United States invasion of Cuba in the early 1960s by some of the most intelligent national security and defense leaders of our country at the time. Your major plot flaws of Alien are valid ones, especially, taking them as rational oversights by perhaps ordinary, average, everyday people like you and I (in this case blue collar miners who were hired for this less than enviable ore plant transportation job instead of some lucrative job based their professional and technical expertise.

As to your first observation of a flaw in the medical examination room, I would like to point out that when the crew of the Nostromo DOES to come up with some weapons later in the movie what did they manage to come up with? Brett came up with electric cattle prods! In the examination room, you have Dallas and Ash and Ripley alone in the medical room while the rest of the crew waited outside looking through the window with Parker yelling to just freeze Kane. This is a manual labor crew on an ore processing plant, without sophisticated weapons, in fact, apparently no weapons of any kind. I guess Dallas could have kept a scalpel in his hand or maybe a fire extinguisher or a match. I don't know. That's the whole point of this movie - in space you can't hear anybody scream. Kane is looking like he's dying, this alien thing has been on Kane for hours perhaps, Dallas and Lambert having dragged Kane back without weapons and any attack from this creature who already managed to break through one space helmet. I mean who's thinking? Except Parker of all people. Kane is dying, at least that's what most people are thinking. Sometimes in the heat of a crisis, you don't think about your own survival and become focussed on the specific emergency at hand - getting a strange creature off another person. Again, remember the crew had no weapons, they had to make some, and Kane is perhaps dying. It is this type of thinking process, the naturalistic approach to a real situation with all its flaws that makes this movie so fascinating. Again, freezing Kane could still kill him with the alien thing doing things to him. And the alien thing, does freezing stop it? Who knows. The alien seemed to have survived in incubation for a long time. Is there really one good, great, best solution under these circumstances. Does one naturally, sit down calmly and make up a checklist of things that must be done, alternatives to be considered before one decides to save somebody and you have Ash seemingly as science officer in charge?

There IS an important argument between Ripley and Dallas about what to do with the Alien, but Dallas as a dutiful employee in command of the Nosotromo but subject to the Corporation and the science officer's apparent superior position, just decides to follow the classical follow orders. The Corporation is going to get its alien, everything else is expendable. Parker and Brett are not in any position to dictate anything different.

What Alien has that The Thing doesn't is intimate detail that provides a rich depth to the movie. For example, Ash's expression just before Kane's chest burster scene and Brett's humorous reaction when Dallas give him his pen back after the Alien acid has stopped eating the ship's ceiling corridor.

Your hindsight point is well taken, and I think I did mention that it wasn't until now that the weak spots have begun to show, which is a serious credit to a film as old as Alien is. However, I still have to say that if the members of the crew of the Nostromo were halfway as scared as the audience was (I.E. me) by the creature on Kane's face, they would be a good deal more paranoid about just walking into the med lab without so much as a stick to defend themselves. You can't tell me on that huge cluttered ship they couldn't find a pole or something laying around at least!
I mean, you point out they already know the thing can smash through the faceplace of a space helmet, that is scary enough, but they also know that it has a snake-like tail it's using to strangle Kane rather than be pulled off him, and also that it has essentially "molecular acid" for blood! I would think just this last fact alone would have them putting it in the shuttle or moving Kane and it to an area of the ship that won't breach the hull if the beastie decides to bleed again. The "caught up in the moment" argument can dismiss them leaving the door of the med lab open for a while before closing it, I'll have to concede. However, given the formidable nature of the Alien--even in its "impregnating", smaller state--I think even the least wary of the bunch would take steps to protect themselves a little better, and certainly the integrity of the ship. In space they might not be able to hear you scream, but this is also true for an atmosphere free ship!
It's obvious that we both like this movie a lot to devote so much time to analyzing it, and this, too, bodes well for the excellent filmmaking going on. It's funny to think that tons of films I love couldn't even make it half way as far as Alien does in matching up against my biased love of The Thing. I'd say the med lab scene and the fake/real head juxtaposition are small prices to pay for cinematic groundbreaking...especially when they are only noticed after the "gazillionth" viewing. And Alien DID come first.
One of the criteria I mentioned that Alien really has got that makes me love it as I do the thing (and I know this has to due with it's and The Thing's small, isolated crew as well) is the amazing, totally convincing and realistic cast. The actors in both films propell them way beyond almost any horror/sci-fi vehicle out there. There isn't a weak link in either one! And that is a huge part of any great movie for me.

Whew...I didn't know if you were going to chomp my argument into tiny little pieces but you demonstrated a gracious reserve and diplomatic excellence in your response. Thank you for no revealing any glaring holes in my work in progress reaction to Alien commentary. I really would like to see Alien again and to see if I can describe some of the small details of human behavior you don't usually see displayed in sci fi movies and see if anybody else picked them up.

"Gracious reserve", "Diplomatic excellence" !! Ha ha ha! Thank you for the nice words, I don't think I've heard those in regard to anything I've said, ever! It certainly wasn't my intention to leap all over you for your views on a film I really like, that's for sure. I think overall any critic's views are his own and no one should be expected to knuckle under and take personal viewpoints as gospel. ESPECIALLY over a movie, for chrissake! Just for fun, though, watch Alien again sometime and look for a couple of things:

1. Pretty bold entry of contaminated med lab containing an unprotected Kane on the bed by Ripley, Ash, and Dallas. This is the one that really got me.

2. Wicked cut-away from fake head to Ian Holm's REAL head several times that looks super fake...also the bad makeup where you can see the fake skin that hopes to conceal his head poking through the table.

Quibbles, I know, but those are really the ONLY things that bugged me. It says a lot! Fun shooting back and forth at each other over this movie, though. I really like good rational arguing over the idiotic screaming kind! We'll do it again over some modern movie soon!

I really agree with you on fake heads. I definitely remember seeing this obviously poorly edited scene which really didn't fit with realistic film-making. By the time I watched the scene, the movie had been so absorbed that I really didn't care - But yes, this scene was definitely lopsided. I think that things were so weird by this time in the movie, I didn't care about reality anymore, I was so caught up with how the storyline was going to end up.

I didn't have the same reaction to the medical lab entry. I actually liked it because of the way the characters behaved in regards to the door and looking up at the ceiling, the way they reacted to each other. I think Ridley must have just given them an assignment to look for the alien and then they did. I'm not sure why the contamination angle isn't a problem for me nor why I didn't have as much a problem with this...I will have to see Alien again.

I've never seen Alien.

Oh, man, Johan, you HAVE to see it, it really is worth a look. So few "Sci Fi" and "Monster" and "Horror" movies come up with anything new, and this one paved the way for Alien vs. human movies that would come years later. I think The Thing went a long way in propelling atmosphere and claustrophobia in the horror genre, as Alien did, as well. Too bad about that competing monster movie released right on top of it with it's own terrifying alien that eclipsed it at the box office, E.T. Talk about your "fake heads"!!

And a message to Mr. Tabuno: Have you seen The Hidden?

THAT would be a fun one to talk about!

I've always avoided the Alien movies. Partly because of the hype, partly because those kind of movies don't appeal to me.

After reading your lively discussion (thanks, guys) I just might rent the DVD on the weekend.

I've always been aware of Sigourney's space adventures, just never had the drive to see them. Same with Top Gun & Young Guns (which has Tom Cruise in a cameo)- I only just saw them last year. They weren't as bad as I thought they would be..

I saw The Hidden when it first came out in 1987. I can only remember that it struck me as very violent and somewhat mechanical, in line like The Terminator, except with different bodies. I'm surprised that I didn't like it more, especially, considering how the original "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" went over. I think I wanted either more personal empathy, entertainment like The Terminator, some emotional struggle, turmoil with each alien jump or perhaps I wanted something even more sterile and horror more than action-violence. The plot seemed pretty straight forward, but I can't really remember much since I only saw it once, and perhaps bits and pieces since then.

Before I make the mistake I did with Alien, I'm going to watch the DVD so I can have a fresh copy embossed on my brain before I launch into it!!

Personally, I preferred the original The Thing from Outer Space starring James Arness as the monster to John Carpenter's. It had some pretty good spooks for such an old horror movie, and the absurdity was entertaining. Kurt Russell is my man, and when he's teamed up with John Carpenter, they really do the job. Big Trouble in Little China remains among my favorites.

...the thing I didn't like was the fact that the monster in the original thing isn't like the "Who goes there?" story at all, it's just a frankenstein monster, or as J.C. likes to call them "a guy in a suit". I agree with him, too, that having the monster be something other than a guy in a suit for the remake was a great call, and Bill Lancaster (rest his soul) did a bang up job of adapting the original story. Not here to beat up on your preference at all, fave films are fave films, and I'd have to say I really love the Kurt Russell / John Carpenter team as well. I only wish Russell had been in THEY LIVE as well!!

Man, Kurt Russell is the action star. Getting off the subject, I've always been a fan of Tim Burton's stuff. I mean, each and every one of his films has in some way had a surreal touch. My friends and I had a Burton marathon on Friday and we were thoroughly enjoying it. Burton, along with Woody Allen and Sam Raimi, is one of my fave directors.

No question those three totally rate. You gotta take chances and risk freaking the audience out / alienating them in order to make really cool, groundbreaking films, and I'd have to say ALL of these guys have done that. The films I like by 'em are tops in my book. I'll never forget when I first saw the Sam Raimi "shakeycam" shots in the Evil Dead movies. I remember going "what the hell??!! Is that a broken steadycam or something??!!". Awesome!

Has anybody seen "My LIttle Eye," a UK horror movie released in October shot in the US? Described as "Big Brother meets Blair Witch Project" it has some creepy moments and is quite a comment on reality TV. Marc Evans directs.