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Thread: Star Wars Episode III: REVENGE OF THE SITH

  1. #31
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    Originally posted by anduril
    I'm surprised by everybody's love for the visuals. I don't find them impressive at all because they simply do nothing

    I think you mean they do nothing for "Star Wars"- the first films.

    The new special effects are too busy, too complicated. The original films had lots of sfx, but nowhere near the kind of dense caterwauling that Lucas has given us since '99.

    But dropped into some OTHER space movie?
    The visuals are astounding- especially the space battles with various ships/vehicles.
    They just don't exactly jive with the Star Wars (1977) universe.
    They seem out of place somehow...the cheaper FX of the original movies proved less is more. It worked wonderfully.
    (so sez me)

    I'll take a giant rubber Jabba over a CGI Gungan anyday..
    Even R2-D2 has a living person inside.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  2. #32
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    >>I'm surprised by everybody's love for the visuals. I don't find them impressive at all because they simply do nothing... rather, in many cases, they detract from the presentation and make it look more ridiculous. LOTR impressed me; The Matrix impressed me; the original Star Wars trilogy impressed me. The prequel trilogy does not impress me.<<

    I am in 100% agreement. The thing about good CGI is that it is set-up by a general visual fabric in the film. "The Matrix" was a very dark movie to begin with. Lots of deep shadows and controlled lighting allowed the CGI to fit right in with the environment.

    "Lord of the Rings" had a consistent visual scheme and made tremendous use of miniatures and actual sets. It set a new standard for CGI.

    The original "Star Wars" series was amazing in terms of the advancements in visuals even between films...but back then Lucas kept a tight grip on how he wanted things to look. Ships, blasters, sets and equipment looked "used" it looked like something in the real world. Lucas used gun camera footage to make dogfights more realistic even though movement in space is very different from movement in an atmosphere. Lucas made the Millenium Falcon "peel out" like a suped-up muscle car because it was cool, totally unrealistic, but cool.

    The new films rely on CGI and yet the smooth, futuristic visuals do little to help the audience suspend their disbelief. We seem to sense that the actors are clueless about their surroundings and standing in front of green screens for the most part. I must admit that a few parts in "Clones" were visually amazing: The asteroid chase was great. The final battle between the clone army and the droids was excellent particularly when the Federation ship crashed sending huge amounts of dust and smoke into the air. Lastly, the short lightsaber battle between Anakin and Dooku was gorgeous.

  3. #33
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    Unreal

    What the hell is everyone bitching about? Revenge of the Sith was cool. End of story.

    You won't catch me defending the acting or dialogue, they plainly sucked, but the story! oh the story...

    Aniken the powerful, who watched his mother die in his own arms less than one movie ago, master pilot and swordsman with a troubled soul who's raison d'etre is about to cause him the same kind of pain and rage that made him throw down against a legion of sand people to blow off some steam. He can feel it happening.

    The Jedi counsil, who took him away from his mother and tatouine before he even had any pubic hair to be their "chosen one" and restore order to the galaxy, won't make him a master because they're afraid of him. They can feel that that boy ain't right, and they don't quite know what to do about it. These are strange times in the realm of the Jedi.

    The Villains: The Chancellor turning Emperor who can barely keep his load together when he's watching little Annie try this revenge thing (all the kids are doing it...). He even makes sure that the kid knows what's going on.
    General Greivous - the evil warlord supreme. MAN was he ever cool lookin'!

    How about Obi Wan? Conflict drives story and here you've got Obi Wan - a deciple himself turned master to a promising prodigy before he was ready. The whole mess is on his shoulders and his own deciple, who he had worked so hard to train and was unable to contain, has to be killed. NOW. And even that isn't going to make it better.
    On any given Sunday, Anniken could have beat his old master, but Obi Wan fought hard stayed disciplined and came out on top. In the end, though, he couldn't do what he had to. He couldn't finish the job. It would take three more movies.

    Revenge of the Sith will eventually be hailed by geeks everywhere as the greatest Star Wars movie. It won't be for the CGA, it won't be for the dialogue and it CERTAINLY won't be for the acting.
    The story on its own isn't even enough to imortalize it. Episode III was timely.

    There is a disturbing sense of fear and loathing everywhere a long time ago in that galaxy far far away, much like right here at home. The good guys are falling in to the classic traps. The disturbances in the force are becoming so frequent that they barely get noticed anymore. The power of the Dark Side is strong.

    BTW: all of the SW movies had bad dialogue. It's par for the course.

    Raoul
    Mindful of the future, but not at the expense of the moment.

  4. #34
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    Then you are truly lost, Raoul.
    http://anduril.ca/movies/

    There's a spirituality in films, even if it's not one which can supplant faith
    Martin Scorsese

  5. #35
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    Wha?

    That's your Obi Wan Kenobe impression? You rushed it.
    What's so wrong with likeing this movie? It will end up being one of the greatest cinematic epics of all time.

    I think I'm going to go and dig out my Empire Strikes Back tape.

    Raoul
    Who Does or does not. There is no try.

  6. #36
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    In the back of my mind I remember how much a fan of Fellini George is, and how Fellini's quote of "Filming your fantasies...they will be seen and accepted as real events" has been taken to heart.

    There is truth to the notion that repeat viewings will make you see the arc, see the "layout". It may be that fans are not quite willing yet to accept George's fantasies for the new films.
    It may be that we'll need some time (maybe years) to actually come to terms with his vision for the 6-film saga.

    But my gut says no:

    Jar-Jar- I will never warm to this insulting creation

    The rat-tails on the Jedi's- one step away from fucking mullets!

    The lines- lines in Star Wars have always been lame. Fine.
    But why the fuck didn't he tweak the dialogue like he tweaked the sfx? I'm sure Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford wouldn't have minded stepping into a vocal booth to alter some things. Then he could have started fresh, with sharp, believeable dialogue.
    I cannot watch the scene in AOTC when Anakin is by the fire with Padme, lookin' for luv- Cringe-Inducing to the max.

    The corniness- and I don't mean popcorn. There is an underlying ridiculousness to this "intense space-opera saga".
    That's why the original films were so ripe for parody with Spaceballs.

    I just read yesterday that Hayden Christensen is retiring from acting. I wonder why? Could it be that the drubbing he got (and still gets) from the press over his "acting" has soured his drive? Or is it that Lucas drove him away from the biz? All those days in front of blue/green screens musta really put the zap on his head.
    Last edited by Johann; 05-27-2005 at 01:18 PM.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  7. #37
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    Hard to argue with that.

    What a curse. One of the greatest epic tales of all time soiled by the number one contender for campiest, cheezyest dialogue.
    It's not fair.

    But, lo and behold, I have the answer.

    Auteurship.
    Lucas doesn't realize that he can't do it all himself. The man is a great director with a wonderful immagination. He's not a writer. He's got the formula down: Timely conflict, start scenes with action in progress... there are some GREAT script moments from the StarWars films. But the dialogue ! URRGhggh.

    Problem 1 with that toilet paper dialoge is what Mckee calls "Writing on the nose". The actors basically talk to the camera and tell the audience what's going on. From Lucas' POV, I'm sure that this is the quickest way to make his story move, and all will be forgiven in the excitement of the next lightsaber battle. Unfortunately...

    "I won't leave you, Master..."

    "From my point of view, the Jedis are evil."

    These are things that an actor has to say without saying. That takes good writing. He blew the budget on the SFX.

    Christiensen hanging up his gloves is an easy one: He's a shitty actor. Proof: If he was any kind of actor, he wouldn't have taken that STUPID fucking role.
    Good Actors are good actors because they play good parts. A good movie character is a collaboration between a writer and an actor. The Greats understand this and don't waste their time on the Anniken Skywalkers of the movie world.

    Having lamented at length, it bares mentioning that there are some terriffic lines in the StarWars films that don't quite make up for the trash, but certainly bare mentioning.

    "We're goin' in, we're goin' in full throttle."

    Yoda's a goldmine.

    "Do, or do not. There is no try."
    "Always looking to the future, he is. Never his mind on where he is (hmm?)what he is doing,"
    (it's the delivery that sold that one. Frank Oz is a great actor. Why? He picks good roles, like Yoda.)

    And finally, as Luke's X-wing takes off from the Degoba System to go and face Vader, training or no training.

    OBI WAN
    That boy is our last hope.

    YODA
    No. There is another.

  8. #38
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    Rise

    Saw it yesterday with a buddy. We shared a huge chonger, smuggled in colas and sat three rows back from the front.
    The first ten minutes are an extravaganza of digital effects.

    The way the camera darts around, diving and soaring, it shows why Anakin is "the best starpilot in the galaxy".
    And so does the awesome sequence where he pilots that "half-ship", aiming to land on the tarstrip: coming in "hot". It's pulse-pounding, exciting.

    I hestitate to say Lucas has "returned to form". He's certainly changed enough/added enough to satisfy some die-hards. Some scenes you gotta like:

    - the lightsabre duel between Obi-Wan and Grievous. Grievous has four (4!) lightsabres in his "collection" and he wields them like a machine posessed- especially when he goes into to full rotation mode on all four mecha-arms. The sabres' ripping up the floor was wicked shit! Yet Obi-Wan manages to defeat the General somehow... That buzzsaw, circular vehicle Grievous escapes in is one of the best contraptions I've ever seen in any movie. What the hell is that thing?!

    -Yoda demonstrating why he is a true Jedi master. I'm so glad Lucas has made Yoda more than just a green old puppet that walks with a cane. At the least with these new films we get some more background/depth on Yoda and other lore

    -the scene where the glass breaks at Grievous' station and he's sucked out into space. Grievous releases a grappling hook and swings back to the hull- that brief shot was amazing: his metal feet slam on the outer hull with great sound effects. And the angle of the shot was perfect. More shots like that please!

    -The wookiee planet. Those scenes were far too short. I could have watched a whole movie about Chewbacca's planet. Great sfx abound; the background/ environment shots were breathtaking, don't forget the "planetary" shots of moons and suns, the tense atmosphere- this is the Star Wars I remember...

    -and the lava duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan. Excellence.
    "You were my brother!" Darth Vader rises...
    Like a Phoenix from the ashes...



    Overall I agree with all the pre-hype. This is the best installment of all six films. I am more impressed and sympathetic with Lucas than I have been in a long, long time ago, in a mindset far, far away.

    I was very satisfied with his "wrap-up" of the saga, even though I could go on and on about the things that could have been different.

    That's all folks. They're the films Lucas created, and they're the films we have to live with.
    Last edited by Johann; 06-16-2005 at 01:30 PM.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  9. #39
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    Raoul


    I agree with your statements about what was/is wrong with prequels as well as what was right about them and the previous three films.

    Yes there is too much Expositional dialogue.

    I can't blame Christiensen for taking the role of Annakin. Even knowing how BAD the movies were to be I'd have taken the role. Dialogue has always been shaky, but it's the quality of the actors and the environment you put them in that makes the difference. Acting in front of green screen simply isn't a task most actors can realistically accomplish.

    Rebel base: "Luke you've turned off your targeting computer. What's wrong?"

    Luke: "Nothing. I'm alright."

    added segment:

    Rebel base: "Don't play with our lives you damn, jedi wanna-be hot-dog #&*!@!"

  10. #40
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    Things I learned from this turkey *spoilers, probably*:

    -Jedi like to point their fingers in a two-pronged fashion in order to look cool.

    -Sith like to hiss like cats.

    -If the Sith hadn't noticed, Force Lightning doesn't seem to ever do them much good.

    -The Star Wars Universe officially harbors the "death due to loss of will to live" prospect.

    -War!

    -Clones are still stupid.

    -Obi-Wan is senile, as in the original trilogy he doesn't recognize C-3PO or R2-D2.

    -Battle Droids are the new Looney Tunes.

    I didn't even mention the dialogue. At least it was unintentionally hilarious. Not my Star Wars.
    "So I'm a heel, so what of it?"
    --Renaldo the Heel, from Crimewave

  11. #41
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    Hmm, maybe I'm Sith, I like to hiss AT cats. and Force Lightning NEVER does me any good.

  12. #42
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    It'll be interesting to see if this film has staying power. Granted, there's nothing opening this weekend that's likely to knock Star Wars off the number one throne. I'd like to go back and see it again. That first time I was so overwhelmed at times, I failed to see all the faults. Some people describe "Sith" as a movie that starts and ends well, but oh that long, long middle.

    *******SPOILERS**********

    I just found it interesting that someone could get midiclorians to do anything! Funny that only a Sith Lord can get them to form a baby, isn't it? Must be a dark thing...

  13. #43
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    These are not the droids you are looking for.

    Originally posted by HorseradishTree
    -Obi-Wan is senile, as in the original trilogy he doesn't recognize C-3PO or R2-D2.
    I thought about that when I cracked the original tapes shortly after watching ROTS. (Ha! "ROTS" HAAA!)

    Droids are pretty forgetable, and he had more important things to focus on. Would you remember your old toaster fifty or sixty years later?

    I found that the modern trillogy added a layer of depth to the original trillogy. There were so many things that Obi Wan wanted to tell Luke, but couldn't. "Darth is your Father" was only the tip of the iceberg.

    When R2 D2 finds his old master in "A New Hope", Obi-Wan tells Luke "I don't seem to recall ever owning a droid..."
    He knew damned well that he had owned droids in the good ol' days, but he didn't want to let on. At the time, there was no point in rushing Luke in to Jedi training and it seemed like Obi Wan was intentionally not exciting him so as to keep him on Tatouine with Uncle Owen for a while, ease him in to the process.
    Naturally, that would make for a boreing Space Epic, so The Empire offed the Mom & Pop farming opperation to create some drama and urgency.

    Bonus droid recollection question: Wouldn't Darth Vader have remembered 3po? He did make him...

  14. #44
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    Re: These are not the droids you are looking for.

    Originally posted by Raoul
    Droids are pretty forgetable, and he had more important things to focus on. Would you remember your old toaster fifty or sixty years later?
    When R2 D2 finds his old master in "A New Hope", Obi-Wan tells Luke "I don't seem to recall ever owning a droid..."
    He knew damned well that he had owned droids in the good ol' days, but he didn't want to let on. At the time, there was no point in rushing Luke in to Jedi training and it seemed like Obi Wan was intentionally not exciting him so as to keep him on Tatouine with Uncle Owen for a while, ease him in to the process.
    Bonus droid recollection question: Wouldn't Darth Vader have remembered 3po? He did make him...
    In response to your bonus, I don't think Darth ever had a scene with the droids in the original trilogy.

    However, for Obi-Wan, after seeing young Anakin construct C-3PO and referring to R2 by name and utilizing his abilities in the third film, I just can't buy it.
    "So I'm a heel, so what of it?"
    --Renaldo the Heel, from Crimewave

  15. #45
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    >>"I don't seem to recall ever owning a droid..."<<

    This doesn't necessarily mean Alzheimers but could indicate some form of demetia. Perhaps exposure to Midichlorians over the years is a factor tat should be studied... or are these carefully parsed Jedi word tricks? Is this the exact quote from "A New Hope" is so it's not really a lie...just an omission.
    Last edited by stevetseitz; 05-30-2005 at 03:04 AM.

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