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Thread: Film Sales Drop

  1. #31
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    I read that shortly after I posted this. You should read that article to see what the Times says about things.

  2. #32
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    FIxable problems, etc.

    I think we would all like to see progress both in the sophistication level of DVD's and in theatrical ticket sales. Fan of Kubrick was not referring to chain stores earlier but to film buffs in saying they might buy a DVD rather than drive 45 minutes. BUt if it's a rare film, arsaib is undoubtedly right: they can't buy it and they won't drive 45 minutes to see it either. Maybe DVD sales don't impact small theaters in particular but I should think everything does. They're the little guys, the vulnerable ones.
    There's no reason why in an ideal world we can't have both a wide range of DVD's even at local chain stores, and better theater ticket sales, which putatively better quality movies would foster. BUt it's a far different world than in 1920, 1950, or 1970 with more specific kinds of competition all the time.

    It's true that anecdotal evidence can mislead. A lot of this seems to be about facts that are either hypothetical or unknown. Even when statistics are cited, the chain of cause and effect here is very uncertain. Nonetheless certain trends show up in the Times article and elsewhere that are incontrovertable. But also I enjoy the sharing of personal information since this is a thread that is germane to individual moviegoing experiences at different periods and in different parts of the country. Newspaper articles such as the Times article, which shows the currency of this thread, rely on anecdotal evidence too; without it the statistics would be too dry.

    I was amused by the quote, "Quality is a fixable problem" (Mr. Dergerabedian, of a "box office tracking firm", is speaking.) There you see the corporate ( or more properly corporate-tracking) mind at work. Who's going to "fix" it?

    Another amusing quote: "'It's really just not as comfortable and fun as being at home,' he said. 'You can pause, go to the bathrooom, deal with a crying kid.'" Such fun.

  3. #33
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    Most of what needs to be said has been said.

    I'd just like to point out that I'm one of those lunatics with an uncountable number of DVD's. Nearly every movie I've seen I have on DVD or VHS, so the number is a lot. Let's just say 500 would be a very small estimate. Oh and very rarely do I watch anything more than once.

  4. #34
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    Originally posted by wpqx
    I'd just like to point out that I'm one of those lunatics with an uncountable number of DVD's. Nearly every movie I've seen I have on DVD or VHS, so the number is a lot. Let's just say 500 would be a very small estimate. Oh and very rarely do I watch anything more than once.
    But I'm sure most of what you own is quality stuff. Not to mention the films that aren't readily available.


    What may be closer than we think is the idea of releasing films theatrically and on DVD the same day. Studios are considering it as piracy continues to be a problem in many markets. (Surprisingly, currently the only company which employs this technique is an indie company called Film Movement.) The window has already shrunk. What used to be about 6+ months is now down to merely 4 in most cases. And I wouldn't be surprised if this trend continues.

  5. #35
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    Originally posted by Chris Knipp
    Johann, I'm glad to hear from you on this. I knew you'd have something amusing and pungent to say. As for the DVD collection prigs, I plead not guilty.
    I'm sure Oscar has a really choice and valuable and rare collection, like the kid who bought the truly collectible stamps while I was just buying the big colorful African ones because they looked so pretty pasted in my stamp book.
    Guilty!
    But I've been to the movie theatre exactly 75 times during the first five months of 2005. How can I afford it? Basically, I dress like a bum, never eat out, plan to drive my '99 Chevy Prizm for many years, and I don't go to clubs anymore. I do collect dvds although I rent if I don't think I'll want to watch the film at least twice. Most of the region 1 discs I buy are used. But most of the ones I buy are foreign-made dvds of films not "coming to a theatre near me". I do plan to sell about 100 of them so that I can afford to buy new ones. I used to give them to my video store owner and friend Isaac but he passed away. A new development: exchanging discs with a guy from New Zealand who has transfered his amazing vhs and dvd collection to dvd-r format. I just received "clones" of the Japanese dvd of Antonioni's The Passenger, and rare films by Straub/Huillet and Joao Cesar Monteiro.

  6. #36
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    envious of those films, particularly the Passenger, but who knows the day may come.

  7. #37
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    I'm going to agree with Arsaib4 on this one. DVD and theatrical release on the same day not only seem to be coming, but also a good solution. Although, this will drop sales steeply, the revenue from both together will be tremendous. And if the movie is meant to be seen on the big screen. Release it only for the big screen for a few weeks, then throw the DVD out there. I didn't know that a company already did that.

    I also agree with wpqx. Everything that needed to be said has been said. I'm gonna shut up now unless something interesting comes along.

  8. #38
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    Stuck in Mainstream Land

    arsaib4: "That's great. So, we should expect to hear a lot from you in discussions pertaining to foreign/indie films."

    tabuno: A very nice attempt to pull me into alternative movie discussions. Alas, married and actually living about 30 minutes from the action which in my thick of the woods is a long time. My spouse isn't a fan of any of the movies that you would be interested in discussing. I'm one of those hard working white collar workers who must find relaxation and entertainment with those mainstream, mindless mass-produced theatrical releases. The foreign/indie films require an amount of sustained, quality attention and mind-power that I'm not sure I have enough in reserve to actually tackle such substantative movie fare. Try getting my wife to "waste" her time and our money. I think it will be a little while before I will be found on more than a few of these threads.

    arsaib4: "otherwise you'd see a lot more indie/foreign films available at your local chain store."

    tabuno: While I can vouch for other people, I am one of those people that Fan of Kubrick is talking about. I usually end up seeing the indie/foreign films on DVD months after they have come out, many times purchased at a sale price from Blockbuster.

  9. #39
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    Qualitative Optimist

    The word "quality" has been raised recently on this thread, but without definition as if everyone understand what one means by quality film. I for one haven't pinned the term down, but I remain an optimist in regards to qualitative improvements. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I've perceived a gradual qualitative improvement in the general, mass-produced, studio film productions of the general genre films that have come out over the past few years. It is because the competition has been tough and the American audience demands something new, exciting, and novel that we've begun to see gradual positive changes in the classic romantic comedies, comedies in general, and even reaching into the television series such as Buffy, Charmed, Angel and even series I haven't seen directed towards teenagers and young adults. There is now a greater exploration between comedy and drama in movies now, a difficult directorial, screenplay, acting accomplishment - even Ally McBeal brought new qualitative media awareness. Mean Girls representative the trend towards somewhat more intelligent, meaningful theatrical programming, selection. If the mass audience continues to respond to these gradual efforts towards qualitative growth then there remains the possibility that the indie/foreign films will still have some audience to draw upon in the future. Recent attempts as the musical - Moulin Rouge, Chicago and to a lesser extent the western - Unforgiven and Dances with Wolves, war movies Saving Private Ryan, sci fi with The Truman Show, mystery with LA Confidential, even horror with The Blair Witch Project, drama with Traffic and American Beauty, Comedy with The Full Monty - I think that the American public at their core "can" respond to quality. This particular public has several hundred years to catch up to their older European brothers, and probably a thousand to their Asian brothers/sisters.

  10. #40
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    Re: Qualitative Optimist

    Originally posted by tabuno
    The word "quality" has been raised recently on this thread, but without definition as if everyone understand what one means by quality film. I for one haven't pinned the term down.
    I can't speak for others, but my usage was in comments relating to wpqx's library, and since we have a similar taste in films, I'm sure he understood.

    I don't think one necessarily needs to pin the term down for its universal connotations. Our subjective tastes can eventually manifest themselves to a point where we're able to define the term for ourselves.

    "...but I remain an optimist in regards to qualitative improvements. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I've perceived a gradual qualitative improvement in the general, mass-produced, studio film productions of the general genre films that have come out over the past few years.

    Yes, I believe you have mentioned this before. And I disagreed with your statements in that thread. It seems like you assumed that the term "quality" was in some way used to attack American cinema, and thus you felt the need to defend films like "Mean Girls" and "Chicago." I don't like circling around issues so no, I don't think much of those films, but like most years, some worthy American films have come out during Fall and Spring like Crash (which you also like), Assault on Precinct 13 etc. And once again, they've been surrounded by tons of other releases that I feel don't even deserve a mention.

    I think that the American public at their core "can" respond to quality.

    I think so too, although, it seems like we've been gradually beaten down into submission to blindly accept what is usually put forth in front of us. I hope other avenues eventually become available to our mainstream audiences, so they can have a better scope on things.

  11. #41
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    arsaib4: "Yes, I believe you have mentioned this before. And I disagreed with your statements in that thread. It seems like you assumed that the term "quality" was in some way used to attack American cinema, and thus you felt the need to defend films like "Mean Girls" and "Chicago." I don't like circling around issues so no, I don't think much of those films, but like most years, some worthy American films have come out during Fall and Spring like Crash (which you also like), Assault on Precinct 13 etc. And once again, they've been surrounded by tons of other releases that I feel don't even deserve a mention."

    tabuno: Your comments still don't invalidate nor detract from my original statement about the qualitative improvement of the American cinema in various genres. It is quite valid to state you don't think much about "Mean Girls" and "Chicago" because with my argument you don't necessarily think much about these films to still have the idea that the qualitative improvement of American cinema be correct. You seems to be looking at my statement in terms of black and white and using a more rigid standard of quality than I am. The progressive qualitative improvements don't with the belief that such movies as I deem as improvements are necessarily going to meet the criteria of quality as is being used here. What I am comparing these movies to are others from the same industry, media-inspired, mass-audience, Hollywood studio production. I think it would be possible to point to the better integration of comedy and drama in movies now than in earlier works - raising the bar of the comedy genre, suggesting and quietly introducing more substantive issues into these movies. I see a creeping emphasis on darker themes and less black and white thinking in the popular movies. I haven't seen much support, rather derision of American popular movies and what I'm saying is that they are moving, however, slowly upwards towards qualitatively better standards, they are having to.

  12. #42
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    Originally posted by tabuno
    Your comments still don't invalidate nor detract from my original statement about the qualitative improvement of the American cinema in various genres.
    They weren't intended to invalidate your statement outright. They were presenting a different POV. It's obvious that you aren't willing to comprehend the other side of the argument, something you did in the other thread.

    It is quite valid to state you don't think much about "Mean Girls" and "Chicago" because with my argument you don't necessarily think much about these films to still have the idea that the qualitative improvement of American cinema be correct.

    Not quite. I could've mentioned "tons of releases" that would support my argument against any qualitative improvement of American cinema but I don't like repeating myself.

  13. #43
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    Maybe you can start a new thread on that issue: Is American cinema improving or deteriorating? To me it seems like there is a lot of fare available, but whether it is any good is another question.

  14. #44
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    David Denby this week in a double issue (June 13 and 20) of The New Yorker wrote a double review of Batman Begins and Mr. and Mrs. Smith and draws conclusions about film attendence and what he views as unwise and damaging Hollywood production choices. I'll quote it because The New Yorker doesn't always make its movie reviews available online for long:

    (David Denby writes in The New Yorker:)
    Both of these digital spectacles are aimed at twelve- to twenty-four-year-old males—the age and gender group that is most likely to turn out for a movie in the first weekend or two of its run. (Movie advertising and DVD promotion are tied to the size of the opening-weekend box-office.) Yet, for the third year in a row, audiences have been increasingly staying away from the theatres, while DVD—and video game—sales have been steadily rising. The movie business is hardly going bust, but, as domestic theatre attendance has fallen, it has become clear that the strategy of tailoring movies for teen-age boys can create a trap for moviemakers. A good part of this audience has never known the satisfactions of story and characterization and emotional involvement. How do you keep bringing these kids in? By continually upping the ante with greater and greater digital thrills. If you can’t do that, they’ll wait for the DVD—or skip the movie altogether.

    The studios could, of course, try to broaden the summer theatre audience—or at least make more films that appeal to men and women over forty, a group that still goes out to see Hollywood movies, especially in the autumn, pre-Oscar season. Now, however, directors like Nolan and Liman, whipping their films into a meaningless frenzy, have got themselves caught in the trap. “Batman Begins” and “Mr. & Mrs. Smith” may appeal to the target audience, but, for the over-twenty-fours, these movies are so overdone and underfelt that they’re hell to sit through. The directors have trashed their own work in pursuit of a dwindling theatre audience.

  15. #45
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    Denby is evil.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

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