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Thread: The War of the Worlds

  1. #61
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    Blah blah blah


    It doesn't matter how many attacks are prevented- it's the few that do happen that negate it all.

    You can't fight terrorism. I'll say it a million times. As long as some group feels wronged or has some belief that runs counter to "the powers that be", you'll have terror.

    The powers that be are not in a position to "wage war" or even contemplate defeating these "killers"- because they don't value life.

    They got the edge there. It's sad but true. When you are staring at 50+ dead bodies or bloody bits of meat and bone, you are staring at a horrifying win for the terrorists.

    They scored some dead. They achieved terror.

    What have "the good guys" achieved? They've achieved giving forensics and the police overtime to clean up and INVESTIGATE.

    The ball is in the terrorists' court BECAUSE THEY HAVE SUCCEEDED IN MURDERING AND FUCKING WITH THE POWERS THAT BE.


    Honk on that, terrorism-boy.
    Last edited by Johann; 08-08-2005 at 10:45 AM.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  2. #62
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    Oh and by the way, my comments aren't "Doom and Gloom".

    It's reality.

    It's the times.

    It's how it really is, not how it is in your or Bush's fantasies.

    This "society" we live in is threatening it's own survival with chickenshit wars for oil, corporate greed, the widening gap between the rich and the poor and the staggering pollution we arrogant humans create.

    We are doomed Steve. The writing's on the wall.
    You are living at a lower standard of living than your parents did.
    You are paying the hard way for the sins of your government.
    You might not see it/ feel it- you work for the machine- but I can guarantee Joe Bloggins in Butt-Fuck Montana feels it when he thinks his only option for success is going to the local recruiting station and signing up becuase they are throwing money at potential recruits.

    I'm not naive enough to say it's only the poor who feel the stranglehold, but they feel it the fastest and with the least amount of sympathy from "THEIR GOVERNMENT".

    You like to wrap things up with a beautiful bow Steve.
    How about getting with the program and call a spade a spade.

    As things stand right now, you're nothing but a heartless war blowhard to me.
    Last edited by Johann; 07-27-2005 at 03:30 PM.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  3. #63
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    >>It doesn't matter how many attacks are prevented- it's the few that do happen that negate it all.<<

    WRONG. It does matter and each time terrorists fail innocent lives are saved. Each attack that does get through is less and less effective.

    >>You can't fight terrorism. I'll say it a million times. As long as some group feels wronged or has some belief that runs counter to "the powers that be", you'll have terror.<<

    Duh, that's why you create and environment where everyone is the "powers that be" i.e. democracy. Put people in charge of their own destinies and hold them accountable and human nature will amaze you.

    >>The powers that be are not in a position to "wage war" or even contemplate defeating these "killers"- because they don't value life.

    They got the edge there. It's sad but true. When you are staring at 50+ dead bodies or bloody bits of meat and bone, you are staring at a horrifying win for the terrorists.

    They scored some dead. They achieved terror.<<

    Only against the weak minded. Fortunately, we have leaders who won't be cowed by terrorism and, in fact, respond with exactly the opposite of what terrorists want. It proves terrorism is a losing fight. People simply won't stand for it.


    >>Oh and by the way, my comments aren't "Doom and Gloom".<<

    Sure they are, chicken little. Honest assessment time:

    I used to know plenty of people like you: so paralyzed by cynicism and pessimism that they allow it to be an excuse to do nothing. It's a convenient position that allows you to rationalize your own meaningless life. You only have one shot at this, so don't screw it up.



    >>This "society" we live in is threatening it's own survival with chickenshit wars for oil, corporate greed, the widening gap between the rich and the poor and the staggering pollution we arrogant humans create.<<

    The widening "gap" is the ultimate leftist straw man argument it means nothing except that society is getting wealthier. We all take for granted things that only the wealthiest people could afford years ago. Refrigerators, cars, mobile phones, air conditioning, abundant and varied food options.


    >>We are doomed Steve. The writing's on the wall.
    You are living at a lower standard of living than your parents did.<<

    Not even close. My parents were lucky to vacation in Hawaii, I can afford to live here. Cost of living on the islands is very high. The cost of living wouldn't even be an issue if we hadn't been moving towards a welfare state for 40 years before Reagan took office. The greatest expense as a percentage of income for Americans used to be: 1. House 2. Vehicle. Now with generation of people growing up as "second- handers" as Ayn Rand would call them, The single greatest expense we have is taxes. That is a huge shift and must be reversed.



    >>As things stand right now, you're nothing but a heartless war blowhard to me.<<

    Yeah it's easy to dismiss differing opinions like that...but in your heart you know it's false. No person, left-wing or right, desires or celebrates war. It's a horrible, brutal thing. I am in a position as a veteran to know this better than all the leftists sitting around the coffee shops of Vancouver reading the Communist manifesto. The fact is between war and totalitarianism, war is the lesser of the two evils. If you have two choices and both are bad and you must make a choice, it is no moral wrong to choose the lesser of two evils.

  4. #64
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    I'm not paralyzed by cynicism- I'm energized by it- it fuels my life choices.

    We don't HAVE democracy, Einstein- we have nobody flying the plane. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll stop sounding like a man with all the answers.
    You're delusional re: the leaders. They put on a brave face, "with great resolve who won't be cowed", but the truth is they're impotent ass-clowns with no means to protect us from terror.

    They can't protect us anymore than you can steve, so spare me your limp-dicked summations of world leaders and their methods for protecting us peons.

    They have dropped the ball everytime.
    London? G-8 was on!

    Security was supposed to be top-notch. "Extreme vigilance". It's G-8! The world is watching. But what happens? Innocent people bite the dust and then they wheel out surveillance camera shots of the guys who did it. That's the guy! The one with the backpack!
    Send the photos to all the papers! The world has gotta know what those guys we missed look like!

    Homeland security. Heh.
    What a fucking joke.

    An excuse to do nothing? I'm voicing my opinion- quite forcefully.

    There's nothing I can do. I don't wanna be a soldier mama, I don't wanna be no politician. I don't wanna die for anyone- least of all a government that doesn't have a conscience or a clue on what horrors they endorse or perpetrate.

    The gap means nothing more than society is getting wealthier?
    Tell that to the people who live in the projects or the people who work 3 jobs just to make ends meet.
    It means way more than just "bitches are getting rich".

    It's far more reaching than that, and your sickening writing off of such important matters that affect so many is just one more example of your lack of humanity or compassion.

    You sicken me with your reasoning because it fails to take into account so much, so many things that you can't comprehend let alone feel for.

    You are like a machine steve: cold, unfeeling, no conscience.

    I've figured you out: you talk tough, but you ain't got cajones to admit that the "powers that be" have failed miserably and have set us on a course for social, economic and national disaster.

    It's just a mater of time.

    I've said just about all I can say on the subject. Your provocations are boring me- I'm getting tired of being your muse for antithetical rants. You're not my match in a word war.

    I said I'm gonna stop with the politics and I will.

    School ain't out son- IT'S JUST BEGUN. All you gotta do is re-read my posts over and over and over and over.
    Eventually you'll learn Charlie Brown...
    Let's hope it's before the Great Civil War of 20??
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  5. #65
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    >>I'm not paralyzed by cynicism- I'm energized by it- it fuels my life choices.<<

    That's very telling. You should examine that statement and decide if that is how you want to be. It's a road to confusion and impotence.


    >>An excuse to do nothing? I'm voicing my opinion- quite forcefully.<<

    Wow. Excuse me if I'm not that impressed. DO SOMETHING. If terrorism so effective...some undefeatable force... why haven't you become one yourself? Why aren't you fighting for what you believe in with more than words. At least the terrorists do more than simply "voice their opinion". I have little respect for those who don't walk the walk.



    >>There's nothing I can do. I don't wanna be a soldier mama, I don't wanna be no politician.<<

    >> I don't wanna die for anyone<<

    "Every man dies not every man really lives."

    -Braveheart

    I don't want to end my life either, but there are many things and people for which I would gladly lay down my life and many times when I risked just that. Better to die for something than for nothing.


    >>The gap means nothing more than society is getting wealthier?<<

    Yep. In every society there are always those who have nothing. It could be Marx's communist dream world or a laizzez faire capitalist society, it doesn't matter. There will always be someone with nothing. This could be to poor choices, laziness, bad luck, whatever. So the so-called "gap" merely measures the difference between 0 and whatever the wealthiest person has.


    >>It's far more reaching than that, and your sickening writing off of such important matters that affect so many is just one more example of your lack of humanity or compassion.<<

    It never fails. Argue with a leftists and they will always accuse you of "being mean-spirited". You know what? Get off your high-horse. It makes me laugh. It's like listening to a celebrity get up onstage at an award show and rail against "Hate."

    >>You sicken me with your reasoning because it fails to take into account so much, so many things that you can't comprehend let alone feel for.<<

    Did you ever stop to think that I "feel" for others too? I simply have a different and more practical response to those feelings. You wear your heart on your sleeve and that is admirable, but doesn't help solve the problem. My life's work is to figure out a better way. So far, there is no better option that giving every individual in the world a stake in their own future. The way to do that is democratic capitalism.

    >>You are like a machine steve: cold, unfeeling, no conscience.<<

    I'm also made of liquid metal.

  6. #66
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    If you saw yourself as others see you....

    Do I want to be cynical? Fuck no.

    But because I have inteligence and because I actually THINK about these things on a regular basis, cynicism is my closest friend.

    Why have you been psycho-analyzing me steve?
    Why have you been trying to punch holes in my credibility?

    I'm not a high-profile politician. I'm not in the public eye. Yeah, this website is public, but it's all discussion. This ain't the best platform for this type of discussion- we end up looking like Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots.


    You work for Homeland Security- you take all this personally.
    You can't stand having an outsider take big swings with his huge Tom Bunyan axe at the base of your big U.S. oak tree of "democracy". It ain't democracy, doofus. It's HYPOCRACY.

    I had an in-depth conversation with a Palestinian friend of mine the other day about all things "middle east". I said "So, is the U.S. in Iraq for oil?" He looked at me like I was a ten-headed hydra. He went on to explain in very convincing terms what the situation is over there. He slammed all of the leaders in the middle east for allowing the U.S. to do what it wants. "Nobody stopped them. If all of the leaders would make a pact against the U.S., the U.S. would have to leave. But they won't. They allow them to be there, and I fault all of the surrounding countries just as much as the U.S. itself. Saddam Hussein? Fuck Saddam Hussein. You know what most middle easterners think of saddam? Here was a man who could have had one of the most powerful countries on earth. But he decided to have his own mafia, his own evil gang, and started ripping off his people any way he could. That is what was wrong with Saddam- he turned on his own people when they believed in him so much- fuck him.

    I asked him about Iraq being number 2 in the world for oil reserves.

    Again he looked at me weird: IRAQ IS NUMBER ONE. NUMBER ONE! I said "really?". "Yes!- Saudi Arabia consumes so much oil that there is no way that they are number one anymore. Iraq hasn't been able to export or trade in oil for over 2 years- that oil is there for the taking. And they are taking it: have you heard of Halliburton?"

    So call me crazy, but I believe my Palistinian friend. Who, by the way is a refugee here in Canada because he was treated so badly by the U.S. government after 9/11 (he went to a school in Texas for 2 years)- he was detained and made fun of and suspected of being a terrorist 4 times at airports. When he was just a regular guy, trying to make it in "the land of opportunity".
    He says 9/11 ruined life in America for middle easterners who immigrated. Now he's got a great job in Canada, living free, HAPPY and free, free to talk about this type of shit without some army monkey forcing him to the ground and assuming he's Osama.


    My comments are straight from the street, Steve-O.

    I'm just a monster reincarnation of Horatio Alger, a man on the move, and just sick enough to be
    TOTALLY. CONFIDENT.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  7. #67
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    Bill Maher's got a DVD called BE MORE CYNICAL.
    Watch it Steve- you'll learn a lot.

    I hate to tell you this, but if you aren't cynical in today's world then you are on the course to confusion and impotence.

    You accept Bush's reasons for war- that makes you just as psycho as he is. Anyone who supports this dumb fucker has got their head up their ass. Come up out of your bunker steve.
    Come up to the surface, like THX-1138 did.


    Live among the real people, not within the chilly titanium walls of ignorance and cruelty.


    Dare to challenge your leaders. Dare to question their motives.
    Don't keep humping your George Bush blow-up doll and think he's gonna love you for it. You're just another sweatshop worker
    cranking out ten-cent t-shirts that sell for 100 bucks at the Gap.

    You are just another cog.

    Me, on the other hand, I've struck out as my own man, kinda like Jim in way, devouring art, because I actually feel the world dying.
    I want to savour music, film, literature before I see it all go up in a mushroom cloud and we're back to buying bread with a whellbarrow full of cash like they did in the depression.

    I don't want to be sitting in the middle of nuclear fall-out saying "if I knew this was gonna happen I would have gone to more films and drank more wine & enjoyed life more."

    So that's what I'm doing. I'm gonna enjoy life fuckhead- that's how I walk the walk. Because I'm smart enough to know that "joining the fight" is fucking lame. Because I'm smart enough to know that it could all end, at any time.

    Because I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

    I already did my part- I was a soldier. no one can take that away from me. I earned my cap-badge. And my government let me down.

    They only got one chance with me.
    I was gung-ho, ready to die for my country at one point. But it was all for an illusion. All for nothing.

    I know that Steve.
    Your government must love you: you polish it's huge shiny knob with your mouth like you'll never get the chance in your life again.

    And maybe you won't.
    Last edited by Johann; 07-29-2005 at 06:17 PM.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  8. #68
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    >>Do I want to be cynical? Fuck no.

    But because I have inteligence and because I actually THINK about these things on a regular basis, cynicism is my closest friend.<<

    It's far better to be practical than cynical. You will find more solutions trying to deal with the world as it actually is rather than simply criticizing it's nature. If cynicism is the belief that people are motivated by selfish and base concerns, then cynicism itself must be the most selfish and basest of philosophies. After all, even a cynic is part of the very world he or she lives in.
    Cynicism is a cop-out, because it allows you to feign outrage while you actually do NOTHING about what you are supposedly outraged about. If you see a problem, fix it. Don't just be a smug prick about the problems that you see. Unless you haven't the courage...

    To look at it from another angle, a cynic who wanted to make a difference would try to devise a system of governing and an economy that makes use of people's "base and selfish" nature.


    >>You work for Homeland Security- you take all this personally.
    You can't stand having an outsider take big swings with his huge Tom Bunyan axe at the base of your big U.S. oak tree of "democracy". It ain't democracy, doofus. It's HYPOCRACY.<<

    O.K. Jesse Jackson, nice rhyme. Isn't it Paul Bunyan (and babe the blue ox) man you really are from Canada ain't you?

    A democracy works like this, if a majority of Americans disagreed with President Bush and his policies they would simply have elected another leader. If they were so fed up with a political party, they would have voted a different way.

    Asking a "Palestinian" about the Middle East is your first mistake, first of all there is no nation called Palestine. It's a region. Do you know anything about the six day war? Israel was attacked by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and incidentally troops from Iraq were also provided. Israel. beat their combined forces in six-day. Egyptian tanks wore out their reverse gear they were retreating so fast. By the end of the conflict Israel had effective military control over the region all the way to Sinai. U.N. Resolution 242 established a formula for Israel to safely withdraw it's troops in exchange for peace with it's neighbors. The so-called Palestinians are either Jordanians, Egyptians, or Syrians would chose to remain refugees instead of returning to the safety of their native country. So...is your buddy an Egyptian, a Jordanian, or a Syrian?



    >>Iraq hasn't been able to export or trade in oil for over 2 years- that oil is there for the taking. And they are taking it: have you heard of Halliburton?"<<

    Halliburton is the world's largest gas and oil field services company, they don't sell oil. They are also American owned. Can you name another gas and oil field services company that has the infrastructure large enough to handle the Iraq job?

    Didn't think so. Halliburton conspiracy debunked.

    >>Bill Maher's got a DVD called BE MORE CYNICAL.
    Watch it Steve- you'll learn a lot.<<

    Bill Maher is sputtering retard. Unless he has surrounded himself with idiotic celebrities and sycophants he can't even make a point in a debate. Ever see Ken Hamblin reduce Maher to tears on his old show, "Politically Incorrect"?



    >>You are just another cog.<<

    We all play our roles. Yours is the more pathetic, methinks. You really believe you are "being a rebel" and "sticking it to the man". You are a sad, laughable cliche. Instead of substance you have chosen symbolism.

    >>devouring art, because I actually feel the world dying.<<

    Ohhh, how brave. and when you are 80 and the world is still chugging along will you regret being an apathetic loser? A disenfranchised cynic? Will you swallow your own gun barrel like Hunter Thompson? Will you even merit an obituary in the local newspaper. Will your life have meant anything?


    >>So that's what I'm doing. I'm gonna enjoy life fuckhead<<

    Doesn't sound like you enjoy much at all unless your brain is addled by mood- altering substances. How could you? You walk around with the coming apocalypse on your mind all the time like some cold-war junkie who can't transition back into real life.

    >>- that's how I walk the walk. Because I'm smart enough to know that "joining the fight" is fucking lame. Because I'm smart enough to know that it could all end, at any time.<<

    Come on, you were that kid who wore the trenchcoat to school weren't you?

    If my debate style became more adversarial at the end of the message, it's simply due to fatigue and irritability.

    Keep watching movies and enjoying them. I think most of the posters agree that we enjoy reading your take on the various films we all see even if we don't agree with everything you post.

    This will be my last post on this thread because I'm sure the only ones reading it are you and I and you are the only one who cares about this debate at this point.

    I can agree to disagree and move on with my life. While I find your attitude disturbing and your grasp of history and current events to be twisted, it's only because...as a young man...I have been there, my friend. I have been fed up, sick of the crap, disillusioned, etc. I turned my back on all that I once held dear. I got to a point where I was as cynical as you are now. Knowledge is but the beginning of wisdom, not it's end.

    Don't think for a minute that just because I disagree with you means I think you aren't smart. I would hope you wouldn't dismiss other people with opposing views in this all-to-convenient fashion either.



    Some of the best debates are between smart people. Who knows, I may actually take some of the "slings and arrows" that have come my way and use them against those further to the right than myself (gasp! are there such people? )

  9. #69
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    I'm here for movies. Not for politics.

    I am man enough to admit you have a scathing intelligence.
    (but you use it in very underhanded ways, MEthinks).


    There's no doubting your invested interest in what you talk about. I always know you are "prepared".



    This site has had WAY too much political flavor. It's tainted the paramount movie aspect, which is why we're all here.

    We know where we stand, fucking move on...
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  10. #70
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    Quick comment about "War of the Worlds" the movie.

    Typical summer blockbuster that quickly erases some of the strong key elements from the book and 50's film version, e.g one of the first buildings ripped asunder is a church!

    formula, formula, formula, dysfunctional divorced parents, obnoxious teen who suddenly becomes a revenge driven heroic machine, dozens of close shaves and near misses and an ending so abrupt it made "Jurassic Park 3's" finale look like "The Return of the King". Couple of nice points, some of the camera work and Tim Robbins (pretty damn scary) performance. Bad points, it may be me but I find Tom Cruise's acting fails to convince, he's no single dad struggling to communicate with his part time kids, he's Tom Cruise playing a single etc.
    The design of the aliens was horrendous, they looked liked lumps of greyish snot, not some form of intelligent life.

    Anyway, a typical no brainer summer blockbuster, if that's your requirement then this fits the bill quite ably.

    Cheers Trev
    The more I learn the less I know.

  11. #71
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    Trev has this down

    Trev826 says in plain, easy to read language the summary essence of this updated version of War of the Worlds that reflects a vivid and well perceived experience of this movie. I'm curious with the ending as it compares with the original movie version - they both seemed to have the same sudden climatic revelation.

  12. #72
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    It wasn't the speed of the death of the aliens that bothered me but the suddeness of Cruise with daughter in tow arriving in Boston to witness the destruction of the aliens just before meeting up with his pregnant but totally unharmed ex, her old but perfectly happy and healthy parents, her new guy again in mint condition lurking in the background and of course his cherished son whom he'd given up for dead suddenly springing back to life, the house was completely untouched as well.

    Now if it had been set in England I'm sure they would have at least invited him in for a nice cup of tea and some cucumber sandwiches for bringing the girl back safely. lol

    Cheers Trev.
    The more I learn the less I know.

  13. #73
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    I didn't hate it, but it is forumlaic, and the ending wasn't necessarily bad as much as it was Spielberg. I mean I didn't expect anything different from him, did you? I do however appreciate the more apocalyptic sci-fi endings like Invasion of the Body Snatchers (now there's a great fucking movie). It was fluff, well crafted fluff, and honestly I personally wanted to see the teenage son get killed, because he's a dopey looking hippie who needs to get a hair cut.

  14. #74
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    (sidebar to Steveseitz)

    Steve: now that I've got you reading Gore Vidal, don't forget to read his intellectually supreme Blood for Oil.

    That book will destroy, obliterate, and annihillate everything you believe about Bush, his evil war and what America is doing.

    The immortal literature God Gore Vidal tells it straight up, with no spins, no rhetoric and no B.S.

    If you think I've been ineffective in debating you then please read these books and substitute what I've said for his words.
    That man speaks for me more than any other living human being today. He's a true WRITER. His elegance and ethereal truth blind me.

    He is a very different animal than HST (who may be too "rebellious" and "blistering" to take) but they got one thing in common: they both know that the Bush family (which includes Dickhead Cheney and Donald Duck Rumsfeld) are repugnant aliens who are nothing more than giant festering boils on the ass of humanity. Boils that need to be lanced, drained and forgotten so that the world can start healing.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  15. #75
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    More Creative Insight From Trev826

    Trev826: "It wasn't the speed of the death of the aliens that bothered me but the suddeness of Cruise with daughter in tow arriving in Boston to witness the destruction of the aliens just before meeting up with his pregnant but totally unharmed ex, her old but perfectly happy and healthy parents, her new guy again in mint condition lurking in the background and of course his cherished son whom he'd given up for dead suddenly springing back to life, the house was completely untouched as well.

    Now if it had been set in England I'm sure they would have at least invited him in for a nice cup of tea and some cucumber sandwiches for bringing the girl back safely. lol"

    tabuno: Now Trev826's commentary hits just the right amount of content and reasoned explanation for his opinion of the ending. You hit on the same feelings and are able to describe it in better detail with a dash of humor. Good job!


    wpqx: "I didn't hate it, but it is forumlaic, and the ending wasn't necessarily bad as much as it was Spielberg. I mean I didn't expect anything different from him, did you?"

    tabuno: The ending was pretty lame (just re-read Trevor826's description again) and when compared to Spielberg's ability to push audience buttons as in "Saving Private Ryan," and "AI," I did expect something different and more from him.

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