Brokeback Mountain

[arsaib4]

I tried to imply that you perhaps had one which prompted you to make that comment, but obviously that's not the case.

It should be noted that some Christian Right critics have approved the film for what it is. And yes, it has done extremely well at the box-office. Some say a critical backlash is coming, but it wouldn't matter if the film continues to collect awards and nominations.

[Chris Knipp]

First a couple of comments from the New York gay paper,Gay City (23-28 Dec. ’05) that show specific gay angles on the movie:

1. The paper's capsule review of Brokeback Mountain says it preserves the prevailing qualities of “sentimentality and archaism” of the story. Is this a put-down? It certainly sounds like one, of both story and movie. And there is good reason, from the gay point of view, for seeing both story and movie as retro.

2. An op-ed article in the paper by Clarence Patton and Christopher Murray relates the lives of Ennis and Jack to living “on the Down Low," which means in black parlance living as straight while having a gay sex life kept secret because of the danger of violent reprisals against them. The writers give recent examples to show this threat of violence and need to live on the Down Low is just as true for gay men of color today. The article concludes:

Annie Proulx's heart-wrenching story about two ranch hands whose overwhelming passion for each other is at odds with everything they think they know about themselves and their world is not, as has been pointed out ad nauseum regarding the film version, a 'gay cowboy' story. In fact, the film's depiction of ostensibly straight men in a hyper-masculine culture can more easily be understood as a metaphor for the experience of many men who do not identify as gay or even bisexual, but who nevertheless have sex with other men."

In a statement that has been quoted elsewhere, Nathan Lee, gay chief film critic of The New York Sun, replying on Dave Kehr's website to a brief dismissive review of Brokeback by Dave Kehr on Kehr's website (http://davekehr.com/?p=37#comments), wrote this:

Why is it that all the straight critics think BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN isn’t gay, or at least gay enough? Spit-lubed buttsex and onscreen kissing and, gee, two men falling desperately, tragically in love with each other? Sounds pretty gay to me, but then I don’t take for granted a corny Hollywood romance that reflects my sexuality since, uh, they don’t exist. I’ll concede that BROKEBACK is, with the exception of Ledger’s performance, mediocre filmmaking, but I wish all you hip, with-it heteros would stop running to the defense of us ill-served gays. Three cheers for middle-brow man-on-man masochistic romanticism, says I. I’ve been watching you straights wallow in it long enough,

Nathan Lee is not overly pleased by Brokeback Mountain but he won't stand for its gayness being surgically removed for us by commentators.

As always, if an experience can be felt as universal, it must first be specific.

Dave Kehr replied to Nathan Lee:

I don’t dislike “Brokeback Mountain” for being insufficiently radical — we are not talking Fred Halsted here — but for its preening self-congratulation, when all it’s doing is offering a compromised, conventional take on gay life that goes back at least to “Victim” in 1961.

Someone else then made the obvious reply that Victim congratulated its gay hero for remaining celebate while Ennis and Jack have hot sex on those “fishing trips”; this movie is an advance in mainstream representation of gay experience--which Kehr (I would comment) is covertly undermining. People on both sides of the sexual orientation fence seem to have trouble seeing what is and isn’t there in Brokeback Mountain. It is revolutionary, but revolutions take place in small increments.

I think it is inevitable to feel a certain degree of guilt as a gay man for praising Brokeback Mountain as highly as I have, since it represents another "negative" picture of gay experience as "doomed" as the mainstream has so often done in the past. However I think that it is still a fine film, as the story, which has exactly the same cast to it, is a fine story, and I also think -- know -- that in achieving mainstream acceptance one must make compromises, and move forward in small steps. I'm not sure Brokeback is really that small a step, considering that it shows "spit-lubed buttsex" and kissing intense enough to draw blood between men played by two young Hollywoood hunks in the roles. That is what I was trying to say a few posts back when I remarked that the movie must be worth something, if it offends everybody. The fact that it displeases everybody shows that it is a real shift forward, but too small a shift to satisfy the debunkers of its gay content or radical gays who (understandably) want a lot more and want it now.

[Chris Knipp]

Nathan Lee further replies on the Dave Kehr site with the following rather impassioned statement, which says it for me, as well. (I urge others interested in this discussion to go to the Dave Kehr website for the discussion, but Lee’s remarks are the most incisive.)Lee says:

How many mainstream movies have we seen this year in which a male star kisses a female star in plain view? Fifty? A hundred? Now how many have shown two major male stars sticking their tongues down each other’s throats? One. Let’s take a step back. How many movies IN THE HISTORY OF HOLLYWOOD CINEMA have presented such images? Edgy Hollywood gay = Hanks and Banderas slow dancing in PHILADELPHIA.
BROKEBACK rebukes the tradition of sexless mainstream movie homos. In an ideal world, I’d side with Armond White when he attacks BROKEBACK vis-a-vis marginalized films that treat gay sexuality and love with greater daring, subtlely, nuance. But we don’t live in an ideal world. We live in a world in which this “compromised, conventional take on gay life” - I agree! - is nevertheless radical in terms of representation. BROKEBACK’s conventionality is, in fact, an asset. This movie is not opening at the Quad.
Straight people simply can’t understand how epochal such images are to gay viewers fed up with the celluloid closet, hetero homogeneity, and neutered film fags (cf. CAPOTE, PLUTO, etc). Straight crix should stop congratulating themselves on breaking down what BROKEBACK isn’t, and try to see how very much it is.
Defending this tame, corny movie breaks my heart, as it reminds me how ill-served gay people are by mainstream culture. I get Dave’s beef with the film, I really do, and I respect his objections to the film on any and all stylistic/dramatic grounds. But I think his disappointment with the sexual politics holds the movie up to an imaginary standard, one that only straight privilege could think applicable.

Yeah!!

[arsaib4]

I posted Lee's earlier reply to Kehr's review and have read his follow-up which you just added. Needless to say, he's made some painfully relevant points. But I don't think enough has been said regarding how backward we are when it comes to honestly dealing with sexuality in general and homosexuality in particular, whether in real life or on screen. (Hollywood will certainly try to make up for it by giving it the Oscar, not unlike what they did when questions dealing with their negligence of black actors were raised.) A film like Brokeback Mountain wouldn't even raise an eyebrow in many European and Asian countries; in fact, they just might laugh at us for celebrating it. But hopefully, like you said, it's a start!

[Chris Knipp]

I agree completely, except I don't know about those Asian and European countries. We are dominated by our Puritan roots, but I don't know that homosexuality is A-ok in any other parts of the world either. I just don't know about that.

And I feel a lot better about the progress represented by this movie than I did about Philddelphia, which in fact was a sign of Demme's disintegration from the fresh, amusing, exciting filmmaker he had been in the Eighties earlier. As Lee says, Hanks walzing around with Banderas is a lot different from what happens -- among young Hollywood hunks -- in this movie. Philidelphia was a P.C. yawn. This is a story that as I said, packs an emotional wallop that stays with you. It's way, way different from Philadephia, and HOllywood's congratulating itself on producing it is fine with me, as long as it gets more people to see the movie.

[trevor826]

Sorry to jump in again despite not having seen the film yet.

Talking about Asian cinema though, there are literally dozens of gangster films especially from Japan where there is no issue of Gay, males have sex with males and this goes way back. There are also films such as "Happy Together" from Wong Kar Wai, I don't remember anyone questioning Tony Leung's sexuality, plus of course there are the films of Tsai Ming-liang and many others from Thailand, Singapore etc.

The only problem I know of in Asia is the Chinese Governments stance on gay/ lesbian issues which is basically total denial.

It isn't the same issue as in the US and UK, we're in part to blame for your Puritanical roots and although being "Gay" is at times trendy in just the same way as being lesbian, there is still a huge problem with it being "seen" whether on screen or in public.

Cheers Trev.

[Chris Knipp]

.There are lots and lots of American gay films. The point is that they are marginal--like Tsai Ming-liang or the Thai director you're thinking of. Brokeback Mountain is mainstream and has two Hollywood hunks having sex and in love.

But thanks and I would like a list of Japanese gangser films in which men have sex with each other. That's just a little problem you've got in China there, not recognizing that homosexuality exists...... I wouldn't say the UK has "puritanical roots." It wasn't founded by Puritans. But Puritans had a big influence in colonial America, or so we (north) Americans believe, and that has affected later morality over here.

[trevor826]

I'll try and list some, I'm not really into the whole "Yakuza" genre but I do remember seeing scenes in films from Kitano, Miike, Fukasaku and Ishii amongst others.

I'm hoping to see Brokeback Mountain Friday so I'll hopefully have something to add to the comments then.

Cheers Trev.

[Chris Knipp]

I have no doubt that you are right, though I personally have not seen these moments, or, probably, most of the movies youy're referring to. A spot check shows others note gayness in yakuza films and something by Kitano. Whether these show how "backward" we are is another question, since they are not gay love stories nor do they represent issues of homosexuality at odds with the surrounding society. It's easy to say "gay" is taken for granted in Asian films, but you could as easily say it's taken for granted in American films. But the statement doesn't hold up against social atttitudes. I just can't see that Asian societies are more sexually tolerant. Brokeback Mountain is a mainstream widely shown movie with well known start that takes up the issue of a homosexual affair within the context of a highly straight society, and that is almost unique.

[cinemabon]

Chris, I still haven't seen this film, although I've read a great deal about the movie via critical reviews, etc. Still, one of the things that I find remarkable, in contrast to recent films in the past when focusing on AIDS, is the lack of effeminacy in the main characters. One of the most blatant Hollywood stereotypes is that all gay men are slightly, if not overtly, effeminate. Whereas, the two main characters of this film are rugged men; men who on the outside at least appear what most people would call straight. What makes this film unique in some people's eyes is that there is a break with the usual stereotypical "gay" man roles. This is a story about regular men, and how they discover, against the grain of the society they live in, that they are not just attracted but love another man. "The love that dare not show its name" has been the subject of legend throughout history going back to the time when it was most accepted in ancient Greece. However, as blacks were given the "step and fetch it" roles in the first half of the 20th Century, only recently with Superior Court rulings do we find gay men reaching an open and more accepted status in society. As time progresses, we will lose the "Will and Grace" view of what it means to be gay, and perhaps, one day accept the fact that like any aspect to society, the gay world is made up of men from all walks of life, with more similar to those from Brokeback Mountain than society now is ready or willing to realize.

[trevor826]

Kitano may be cult in the West but in Japan he is huge, apart from directing and starring in films he is exceptionally busy with several TV shows.

Again where his or other films are cult hits at the most in the US, Europe etc, in Japan and other parts of S.E. Asia they are mainstream. He (amongst others) has directed films with "Gay" scenes and has taken "Gay" roles, the difference is not that it's taken for granted, it's just not a big issue.

I think that you would also find that in Thai cinema, it's not just one or two "Art-house" films, it's more the norm and definitely the mainstream.

Cheers Trev.

[Chris Knipp]

I'll be on the lookout to see if it is as you say.

[oscar jubis]

I'm always interested in this type of cross-cultural discussion. For the time being, I'm not buying into trevor826's argument. But I'm no expert on Asian cinema and I remain open-minded. This is what I know:

Of course, we have Kar-Wai's Happy Together which trevor mentioned.

The recurring character in Tsai's films has had two "gay" scenes: in Vive L'Amour he crawls into a bed where a man is sleeping and it's clear he desires him. And there's that great scene in The River (still my fave Tsai) in which he realizes that the man in the dark room, with whom he's having anonymous sex, is his father. I don't think that either film was a blockbuster in Asia but I could be wrong.

There are no gay scenes in films directed by Takeshi Kitano, but Beat Takeshi (his name when he's acting) played a character that lusts after a very handsome, younger one in Oshima's Taboo. If I knew of more films like this one I'd be inclined to agree with trevor 826, but as far as I'm concerned, it's the exception.

Sogo Ishii: I've only seen Gojoe and Angel Dust. No gay scenes.

Fukasaku:I've only seen the Battle Royale films. No gay scenes. Not impressed. Not half as talented as Miike.

Miike: I'm convinced NOBODY has seen all his movies. He makes at least 6/year. I've seen about 8 and I don't remember gay content but I could certainly be wrong. He is an expert shock-meister. I remember a sex-with-corpse scene, unimaginable gory mayhem, etc. He would include gay sex to shock, not to validate it, understand it, or normalize it.

I've seen two Thai films with "gay-content", both from the Chicago-educated, openly-homosexual Apichatpong Weerasethakul. He has said in interviews that his films are more popular in Europe than in Asia. The two films are: the very campy, outrageous The Adventures of Iron Pussy, and the sublime. experimental and masterful Tropical Malady, my favorite movie of 2005 that has gay content of any kind.

[trevor826]

Saw Brokeback Mountain early today, I'll write my opinion a little later except to say I enjoyed it and there was a good sized audience (mostly female) which for an early screening was a very positive sign.

I'm no expert on Asian cinema, neither am I but I'll try and respond as well as I can to your post Oscar.


There are no gay scenes in films directed by Takeshi Kitano

Yes there are in either Boiling Point or Sonatine, not sure which one.

but Beat Takeshi (his name when he's acting) played a character that lusts after a very handsome, younger one in Oshima's Taboo. If I knew of more films like this one I'd be inclined to agree with trevor 826, but as far as I'm concerned, it's the exception.

Try Gonin where he plays a Yakuza heavy who happens to be gay.

Sogo Ishii: I've only seen Gojoe and Angel Dust. No gay scenes.

Sorry, I knew when I typed Ishii I should have been specific, I was talking about Takashi Ishii and Gonin in particular.

Fukasaku:I've only seen the Battle Royale films. No gay scenes. Not impressed. Not half as talented as Miike.

You obviously haven't seen any of his earlier films plus he's only responsible for the first Battle Royale, he died at the start of filming of the second and his son took over. Also, Miike has remade at least one of Fukasaku's 70's Yakuza flicks, Graveyard of Honor.

Miike: I'm convinced NOBODY has seen all his movies. He makes at least 6/year. I've seen about 8 and I don't remember gay content but I could certainly be wrong. He is an expert shock-meister. I remember a sex-with-corpse scene, unimaginable gory mayhem, etc. He would include gay sex to shock, not to validate it, understand it, or normalize it.

Having seen at least 15 Miike films I can safely say he can make films of subtlety not just of shock value. Dead or Alive has gay sex, more like gay rape for shock value but the far more thoughtful Dead or Alive 2 is pretty homo-erotic.

As for Thailand, try Iron Ladies, Monrak Transistor or Tears of the Black Tiger. By the way, a lot of the characters in Iron Ladies seem really effeminately over the top but it's based on a true story and the actual people are seen at the end and are even more effeminate.

Cheers Trev

[trevor826]

Brokeback Mountain (2005)

Directed by Ang Lee

Starring Heath Ledger, Jake Gyllenhaal, Michelle Williams, Anne Hathaway

A tragic love story about two people who can only steal precious moments with each other while leading ordinary lives, married with children. The major difference in this tale of illicit love is that the two people are both men.

The first thing that hit me on seeing the two principals was that it was obvious who would start the relationship, Jack (Jake Gyllenhaal) is a slut, his nonchalant slouch speaking volumes. Sure enough on a night of temperamental weather, he instigates the relationship with Ennis (Heath Ledger), a relationship that will dominate the rest of their lives.

Both men sign on to take care of a flock of sheep in some of the most photogenic landscapes I’ve seen in an American film. Taking it in turns to play husband and wife, one caring after the sheep, the other ensuring there are enough provisions, cooking the food etc. Slowly but surely they are drawn together despite Ennis’s statement of “I ain’t no queer.” At the end of the season they both head their separate ways, Jack returning home to help his father, Ennis to join his betrothed.

Ennis marries and has children, seemingly happy with his lot in life until four years later when he receives a postcard from Jack, they meet and straight away the love they had resurfaces and they head off on a supposed fishing trip together.

From then on these trips take priority over everything else, wives, children, work until tragedy strikes, leaving one of them pretty much alone in the world having virtually lost everyone he cared about.

History tells us that a great many gay men and women hid their sexuality and led what we consider normal lives while often having relationships with the same sex outside of their marriages. Being gay has until recently had a stigma attached to it, indeed there are still professions that find it intolerable, where being openly gay could lead to serious physical abuse and/or ruination.

The sex scenes within the film are negligible, most passion shown through heavy kissing and hugging, the acting is excellent and it’s nice to see Anne Hathaway doing something different from the normal disposable fluffy roles she’s known for.

What did I like, the scenery at Brokeback Mountain, absolutely stunning. The acting, convincing all round. The story, had more than a ring of truth to it.

What didn’t I like, the music, sorry but I can’t abide Country and Western music. Anne Hathaway’s blonde wig, right for the film period wise but butt ugly, also Jake Gyllenhaal’s moustache, all I could think of was The Village People when I saw it.

Would I recommend it? Hell Yeah, I’m sure some gay people might not feel it goes far enough sexually but it should attract a good mainstream audience which an overtly sexual film wouldn't.

Cheers Trev.

BBFC rated 15.