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Thread: Éric Rohmer

  1. #16
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    The wikipedia quote uses the words "movement" and "genre" interchangeably. Maybe "mumblecore" (which I can only use as a quotation myself) is both a movement and a genre. I happen to be more interested in genres than movements, at least currently. And bringing up Wittgenstein into a discussion of genre is most appropriate and stimulating. Thanks.

    Part of my lack of enthusiasm for "mumblecore"(and by that I mean simply the films of the directors listed by wikipedia) is that I didn't find any of the films to be anywhere close to the American independent films I have loved over the course of the last decade. And they are: the trio by Ramin Bahrani, Paranoid Park, Half Nelson, Sugar, George Washington, All the Real Girls, Lodge Kerrigan's Keane, Julian Goldberger's Trans, Lance Hammer's Ballast, and Azazel Jacobs' Momma's Man. Mutual Appreciation, Medicine for Melancholy, and Cyrus are good films though, worth recommending, and I will continue to seek the work of their writer/directors.
    Last edited by oscar jubis; 06-28-2010 at 04:43 PM.

  2. #17
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    It certainly is both a movement and a genre, and also a group. I can see you're interested in genre and that seems from Wikipedia to be all the rage nowadays. I still see it in the strict sense of literary genre or movie genre, literary being like narratie, epic, or lyric poetry, novel, play, poem, short story, or more narrowly crime novel; or in music punk rock, techno, folk, heavy metal, hard rock, disco, and on and on. I'm glad you appreciate the introduction of Wittgenstein, an old favorite of mine. The family resemblance concept is a very useful and important one for people who are getting all tied up in knots with definitions and demarcations and "taxonomy."

    These guys are really not to be compared to others. They are sui generis. That is why they have their own name and separate category. They work on their own terms and they work very well that way. What is the point of comparing them with Bahrani or Paranoid Park or Ballast? Those films are not trying to show young educated adults with no clear direction feeling around for relationships, or how such people talk in fairly extended conversations. I could throw out all of them and say the ones you mention are not as good as my European classics. But what's the value of comparing apples to oranges? Mumblecore films don't try to be something they are not. I think you like to make comparisons and rate movies more than I do, despite your having said in the past that it's all just a matter of what you like. What's the use of saying Tarkovsy is more profound than an Ealing comedy, or film noir isn't as funny as Charlie Chaplin? Just because a film is American and independent and made on a small budget (and some you mentioned were made on a much larger budget than anything by the Mumblecore group) doesn't mean it's valid to compare them. Who would you compare Éric Rohmer with and find him wanting? But don't try. Let's just drop the comparisons, please.

  3. #18
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    Why not? Comparing is crucial to understanding. Everything our senses apprehend gets immediately compared to past experience. This happens at every level of intellectual activity including criticism. I have yet to see sufficient evidence that these films constitute a genre and that their authors form a movement. And the mediocre quality of the films as a whole (exceptions noted in previous post) makes me lose interest in the critical arguments.

  4. #19
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    Of course one needs touchstones. And it may be well true that much Mumblecore is "mediocre" as you say. However I can't agree that all but CYRUS, MUTUAL APPRECIATION, and MEDICINE FOR MELANCHOLY (which we're not even quite sure is Mumblecore) is "mediocre". Insofar as it's something new and fresh, that's what makes it stimulating and why writers are drawn to it and viewers especially young ones are too. Sometimes the value of a new film is that it tries something different, not that it succeeds in being a great film. And if we apply old values or criteria to it we may find it wanting and later it may turn out to be much better than we realized. Weren't the New Wave trashed by conventional French critics at first?

    The critical discussion I've offered is perhaps a bit boring. Rizov and I failed to engage your interest. But the topic is of interest precisely for the challenges it poses to describe and categorize. With masterpieces it hardly matters what category. But entymologists dont say I don't like this bug, it's a mediocre bug. They say wow, this is a challenge to categorize. Think of Bujalski, Duplass, Swanberg, et al. as bugs.

    And the reason for beginning the topic here was how the Mumblecore focus on young people, relationships, and conversation made it connect with Éric Rohmer's work. That it's not up to Rohmer should be no surprise. But kids just out of Harvard are not going to turn into French people in Lacoste shirts and scarves.

  5. #20
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    The latest issue of Senses of Cinema is devoted almost entirely to Rohmer. The level of scholarship of most of these essays is very high.

  6. #21
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    Information August 11, 2010 from the Film Society of Lincoln Center:


    Now on Sale!

    August 18 - September 3: The Sign of Rohmer

    In celebration of Eric Rohmer's extraordinary career, we are delighted to present the most complete North American retrospective of Rohmer's work in more than a decade, including all of his feature films, the U.S. premiere of his 1980 TV film Catherine de Heilbronn, plus special in-person appearances by key Rohmer collaborators.

  7. #22
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    Great thread here. Excellent reading.

    I don't really have anything to add (my knowledge of Rohmer is limited).
    Chris, are you attending the retropective at Lincoln Center?

    And Oscar, just FYI I bought a dictionary of psychology and I've been "reading" it.
    I feel smarter just by reading a dictionary for psychology!! who knew!!!
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  8. #23
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    Welcome back, Johann. No, I am in California now, but I'm on the FSLC mailing list and get notices of all their many film series. I expect to be back in NYC in September for the New York Film Festival. Hope so, anyway. Of course a lot of Rohmer series have been put on to celebrate his life and work, but the Lincoln Center people are saying theirs is the most comprehensive.

  9. #24
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    So you're at home?
    Hope the summer is winding up nice for you. Looking forward to more posts from NY or elsewhere..

    I just bought a blu-ray DVD player (first one I've ever owned) so I hope to post a little more these coming days.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  10. #25
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    Congratulations on your new gadget.

    I have been sick with a bad virus for over a month and not having much fun. I have kept going to new movies and have reviewed them. I've done these reviews;

    INCEPTION
    SOUTH OF THE BORDER
    THE LOTTERY
    THE KIDS ARE ALL RIGHT
    LIFE DURING WARTIME
    SALT
    MR. HOOVER AND I (This will be augmented to include short reviews of all Emile de Antonio's main films)
    GREAT DIRECTORS
    CHARLIE ST. CLOUD
    DINNER FOR SCHMUCKS
    WINNEBAGO MAN
    TWELVE
    GET LOW

    I expect to do a review of EAT PRAY LOVE this weekend. Of these, the new ones, I would most recommend LIFE DURING WARTIME but of course INCEPTION should be seen and WINNEBAGO MAN is sort of interesting, TWELVE as I said is a Guilty Pleasure if you like that kind of stuff, and GET LOW is worth seeing for Robert Duvall's and Bill Murray's acting (I suppose; it will be so if Oscar nominations come). I am not recommending THE KIDS ARE ALL RIGHT. I think it's overrated, and not "the way we live now" as claimed, though again, the acting is good, or decent anyway.
    Last edited by Chris Knipp; 08-13-2010 at 10:11 AM.

  11. #26
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    Hope you can beat that virus soon. Your writing is unaffected and that's all that matters.
    Lifesblood of FilmLeaf? That would be you.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  12. #27
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    Thanks. Are you going to check in on INCEPTION?

  13. #28
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    I hope to see INCEPTION this weekend. Really gonna make an effort to see it this weekend.
    It's in IMAX as well- which version would be preferable do you think? You've seen it- would it lend itself to IMAX?
    After DARK KNIGHT I would guess "Yes"
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  14. #29
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    Sure go for iMax if that floats your boat. I personally have never had the iMax experience. When possible I watch new 3D movies in 2D. I can imagine the dimensions better without gimmicks. But iMax sounds impressive. And that is what INCEPTION is meant to me, impressive.

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