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Thread: WONDER WOMAN (2017/dir. Patty Jenkins)

  1. #16
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    Tabuno- Wonder Woman doesn't actually use her skills as "weapons"- what she does is moral judgment calls, according to her powers, thus making her a benefactor to humans- all humans of Earth. Elektra faces select enemies, and doesn't always win. It's important to make that distinction- Wonder Woman is a Goddess. Elektra is a human. Extraordinary, yes, and even more humane when played by Jennifer Garner.
    Do you read Elektra comics, tabuno? or just love the movie?
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  2. #17
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    Johann, you have real expertise in this stuff. I have none of it.

  3. #18
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    I know comic books, I admit it.

    Frank Miller created Elektra, and Frank is not known as a pro-female guy, even though he is. I know some people who don't like Frank at all, in fact they think he's too dark and heavy for comic books, that what he does is "niche". Tabuno- do you think Elektra is "niche"?
    It sounds like you think she is more appealing to women (or should be) than Wonder Woman. Is that only true for the movies?
    There are people who outright don't like Frank Miller, and it baffles me. He's the Ultimate to me. If you're gonna have someone "push the boundaries" with comics, go "non-Canonical", then Frank is THE GUY.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  4. #19
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    You do know comics, Johann, you know them, and you present your knowledge with a bracing succinctness and clarity. And it's important knowledge to have to confront Hollywood today.

  5. #20
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    Thanks Chris. I love comics. And I love movies. And I love comic book movies- a lot suck, but quite a few pass muster. Some are even brilliant, such as Chris Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy. No matter what comic book adaptation they attempt, I'm already in their corner. Even before I see a trailer. I welcome ANY comics adaptation. From the Smurfs to Preacher...Bring it on.

    I am a fan of the Ben Affleck Daredevil- I thought it was good. Definitely far from stellar, but I thought it was a good first attempt. I liked Elektra too, as tabuno does. I just don't think Elektra offers more for women (or even comics fans) than Patty Jenkins Wonder Woman. The set-pieces (and budget!) are clearly of a higher caliber. I respect your valued opinions tabuno but you should go see Wonder Woman again....in 3-D! haha
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  6. #21
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    Female Director Falls to Male Dominated Industry

    Just because a female directed a movie doesn't mean that her perspective will be successfully allowed to reign over a movie. Sometimes to be successful in today's movie business, especially the blockbuster mainstream feature films, one may have to sacrifice one's values in order to obtain a broader audience that adheres to more traditional values. I believe a side by side comparison between Wonder Woman and Elektra would reveal an imbalance of the lack on the part of Wonder Woman compared to Elektra of key emotive and relational connections, intimate detailed scenes that highlight the value of human compassion over just exciting physical action and special effects. One can also see this in politics when minority candidates run for elected office where the minority candidate sometimes needs to run on the white electoral platform to win. African American Clarence Thomas, Supreme Court Justice, would be an example of how cultural or genetic make up doesn't necessarily translate into a narrower focus on adhering to one's own historical background.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabuno View Post
    Just because a female directed a movie doesn't mean that her perspective will be successfully allowed to reign over a movie.

    That's true, tabuno. But in this case, Patty Jenkins nailed it in Spades. She's working in male-dominated blockbuster territory, yes. But she absolutely held her own. Wonder Woman the movie gets favorable reviews from men and women alike- it's hard to find people who didn't like it. You're the only one I've encountered.

    I think you are forgetting that this is her first movie. She's being "established" on-screen. There will be other movies for her "emotional" scenes, for her "human" traits to shine. (Which she has- Compassion is a human trait that Gods don't usually boast of).
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  8. #23
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    James Cameron's Opinion

    James Cameron in Entertainment Weekly (August 24, 2017) says Wonder Woman is 'a step backwards.' James Cameron claims “all of the self-congratulatory back-patting Hollywood’s been doing over Wonder Woman has been so misguided.” The Terminator director told The Guardian in a new interview that the Patty Jenkins blockbuster is just “male Hollywood doing the same old thing” on account of the fact that he feels Wonder Woman as a character is “an objectified icon.” “I’m not saying I didn’t like the movie but, to me, it’s a step backwards,” Cameron said. Cameron is notable for putting actresses at the forefront of his action films, from Linda Hamilton’s Sarah Connor in Terminator and T2 to Sigourney Weaver’s Ripley in Aliens (that character originated in Ridley Scott’s 1979 blockbuster Alien). But according to the filmmaker, Connor has an edge on Wonder Woman when it comes to authenticity. “Sarah Connor was not a beauty icon,” he said. “She was strong, she was troubled, she was a terrible mother, and she earned the respect of the audience through pure grit. And to me, [the benefit of characters like Sarah] is so obvious. I mean, half the audience is female!”

  9. #24
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    James Cameron has clout, no doubt about it tabuno.
    But in this case, Jim is mistaken, he's actually just hyping his own work.

    Avatar came out in 2009, and I loved it. Fantastic 3-D movie. Groundbreaking in so many ways. But even he's got to admit that his story on Pandora was built on archetypes and cliches, just like he's accusing Wonder Woman of.
    And where's his sequel to Avatar? Hmm? That movie made serious history AND serious money. That film was Cameron's second Billion-dollar blockbuster and yet the sequel still isn't finished. It's been 8 years! This movie had better knock our fucking socks off, or else we'll be allowed to openly mock James Cameron.

    I'll only concede one thing to Jim and even that is not really a concession. He says that Wonder Woman is under male-dominated influence, and he's right. Patty Jenkins is actually directing Wonder Woman under Zack Snyder's guidance. Zack is the current torchbearer for DC heroes onscreen these days, and it's perfectly OK for him to "edit" or shadow-direct a project like this.
    Wonder Woman is still fabulous to me, still has enough respect and kick-ass girl-power. No one can convince me that that movie was or is a "Step backward". Sarah Connor is not a female character more important than Wonder Woman. No Way. I love Sarah Conner, but she's no Heroine, let alone a Goddess. She's taking on ruthless machines, she's an Underdog. It's apples and oranges.

    Thanks for the debate though, tabuno.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

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