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Thread: Lost in limbo

  1. #31
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    Originally posted by Johann
    Where is Vivian Kubrick? I'm gonna write to her. She could dethrone Sofia in short order.

    All Vivian Kubrick's done is a 23 year-old half hour made-for-tv making-of The Shining. She couldn't even get daddy to sit down for an interview.

    I'm incredulous about my having to post defending the filmography of an accomplished, young director with an original vision.

    Johann's is one of the most ridiculous posts I've read on this site. I write this with trepidation. He is the one member willing to consider current releases, recognized and obscure movies from the medium's history, as well as films from the fringes. He teaches me a lot. But that's one silly post. Too much turkey???

  2. #32
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    When you're working in the same field as a famous father you have to live with that fact. This includes being called "a lucky brat." It comes with the territory. However, the remarks about Kubrick's daughter were out of left field, to be sure. I think this came up because I was interpreting pmw's very critical response to Lost in Translation. I said he was harsher on her because she's more his age. As an older person I'm more inclined to be impressed by her precociousness (esp. with Virgin Suicides). Then it occured to me that another motivation for being hard on her is that she's the daughter of a great director and therefore had certain advantages the average girl doesn't get, and also comes in for comparisons with her dad's best work.

    These are threads: they twist and turn. Sometimes they get lost -- in limbo.
    Last edited by Chris Knipp; 11-28-2003 at 12:53 AM.

  3. #33
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    I wonder if people dont give her movies more credit than deserved because of her pedigree.

    Let me ask this: was anyone else suprised by the number of elements that distinctly aimed at creating a Rushmore-like air?

    I just didnt think this was necessary. Rushmore came out what 4 years ago? An odd homage....?

  4. #34
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    Vivian Kubrick's half-hour "made for tv movie" is light years better than The Virgin Suicides. And I am serious when I say that.

    She did way better than "get daddy to sit down for an interview"- she documented the man on a movie set- directing. That's worth more than 10 films by little Sofia, who is enjoying a nice start to her "original vision" career.

    Vivian Kubrick has the potential to be a master director- like her old man. No, she hasn't made a film yet. That doesn't concern me. The making of the shining was incredible, and Stanley himself said he wouldn't have allowed it to be seen unless it kicked ass.

    I take offence to being thought of as ridiculous. Kubrick/Coppola.
    I'll side with a film NOT made by Vivian than 2 releases by sofia.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  5. #35
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    Let's try for some perspective here?

    I wonder if people don't give her movies more credit than deserved because of her pedigree.
    That too: the odds are raised when your dad is famous. Everybody's watching you, and the reactions are more extreme in both directions, praise and blame. "Comparisons are odious." But oh, how we like to make them. Knowing the brilliance and epic quality of Francis Ford Coppola's best work, people may find Sofia, who was somewhat of a joke and an embarrassment earlier as a bit player, works, as it was said of Jane Austin, on a "little piece of ivory." But let's give her a chance, hey? For me, The Virgin Suicides works better than Lost in Translation, precisely because it is a tidy, ironic little adaptation of a clever novel. The recent movie has more pretentions to profundity and does not sufficiently fulfil them to leave me completely happy, though it, too, shows ease with the medium, a fresh outlook, and an ability to assemble and work with an excellent cast and crew.

    I can't discuss the merits of Kubrick's daughter because I know nothing about her, and though I would hesitate to call anybody's statements"silly" -- especially not those of Johann, who has contributed so much here, the issue of the relative merits of famous directors' daughters as filmmakers seems pretty peripheral.

  6. #36
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    While we're on the subject of famous parents

    This topic came up because Sofia Coppola has made a name for herself.

    I'm glad she has done so. The problem is precisely that her father is a major figure in the history of motion pictures.
    *get ready for some blunt comments*

    I happen to believe that if you are the kin of a famous artist (and especially if that famous artist has a legacy that is monumental) you had better have your shit together. Let me make my point.

    Look at Jean Renoir. He's just as great an artist as his father, the painter Auguste, if not better.

    Look at Sean Lennon. He's an annoying little piss-ant who can't even sniff his dad's black Rickenbacker. He's an embarrassment to the music industry. Don't let that kid in a studio!

    Look at Julian Lennon. He's got the same ideals as John when it comes to melody and evocation. I love his album Valotte. He got torpedoed by Yoko so that Sean could "be an artist" on his dad's nickel. It makes me sick. If you knew the shit Julian has put up with from Yoko you would be shocked. Jakob Dylan at least rarely mentions Bob. Good on him. Why bother when your dad is poet laureate?

    back to film (sorry).

    All I'm saying is Sofia Coppola has a lot to live up to, and until she makes an epic that knocks me on my ass, I'm going to be critical. Harshly so. I'm happy she's making good films. But this is Coppola we're talking about here.

    If Vivian Kubrick was making films I have a sneaky suspicion that she would aim higher than Sofia in the "legacy" dept.
    (if she aims at all-what are you trying to do, Sofia?)
    In my dreams Viv is working on something that will surprise the film world. Her name is Kubrick, and in terms of film, it holds tremendous weight. Hanging out on Stanley's sets and being raised at Abbot's Mead has to be something that will elevate a possible VK project higher than Coppola's interesting but not incredible efforts. A Vivian Kubrick film would be an event. I barely raised an eyebrow when The Virgin Suicides came out. why? Because I fucking remember Godfather 3. That's why!

    Pardon me if I have suspicions about the great Sofia Coppola...
    Last edited by Johann; 11-28-2003 at 03:25 PM.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  7. #37
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    You are perfectly illustrating my point.

  8. #38
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    Yes Chris, you and I are on the same page

    But unlike you, I happen to know a lot about Vivian Kubrick, so I can discuss her "merits". I know less about Sofia, but no matter.

    The majority of the clips from Full Metal Jacket in the documentary by Jan Harlan Stanley Kubrick: A Life in Pictures were from Vivian's camera. She made a doc on that production (like The Shining) but it was shelved. -probably because it didn't live up to the Kubrick standard.

    Of Kubrick's 3 daughters, Vivian is the only one to take an interest in filmmaking and it appears she was cut little slack from her dad. She was TAUGHT by him how to make films. If I was her, I'd be in production on some film project.
    The book "A Life in Pictures" by Stanley's beautiful widow Christiane shows stills like the one with Viv and Stanley hovered over a movieola- I almost cried when I saw that picture!

    Yes, I'm biased. I have studied the "bios" on francis and stanley. Francis routinely treated Eleanor terribly, and I have little sympathy. Coppola has lost his marbles on occasion, and I think I can be forgiven for assuming it's a family not without some form of dysfunction. Kubrick, for the most part, seems to have had it all together. I'm not saying he was omnipotent, but christ, the guy knew what he was doing ALL THE TIME. I think it's better to make mistakes while conscious.

    Kubrick in this context is a better "name" than Coppola.

    If I had a major film director as my father, I wouldn't dare "enter the arena" unless I did him proud.
    I haven't heard if Francis is proud, but I'm sure he is. He cares about family, I'll give him that. I like to think Vivian Kubrick would take her time, just like THE MASTER.....
    Last edited by Johann; 11-28-2003 at 07:46 PM.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  9. #39
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    Just writing a quick hello and post from degaulle airport, then off to shoot some digital footage. My mind is going at a mile a minute.

    Oscar, no hard feelings, eh?

    It's just film discussion....
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  10. #40
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    Johan--Nice to hear direct from the setting of "Décalage horaire."

  11. #41
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    No hard feelings, Johann. God luck shooting at the Pere Lachaise. Be safe.

  12. #42
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    Pere lachaise

    Thanks for the good vibes, gentlemen. If I can find a way to show you guys what I shot at the cemetary I'll try. I'm very happy with my "work". Lots of stray cats in Pere Lachaise. I filmed a cat sleeping on a grave for about 10 minutes. If only I had some classical music to match it with...
    The natural light wasn't ideal. I have to come back in the spring or summertime for my next trip. I'll be back, mark my words.

    Last edited by Johann; 12-11-2003 at 04:59 PM.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  13. #43
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    Sofia Coppola’s efficient yet quirky romance is a very good engagement of two mediums, the short story and cinema. Using the technique of linking her converging story (two abandoned souls meet and form a gentle relationship while adrift in a foreign country) with short yet open-ended scenes, Coppola stays on course and doesn’t descend into the dull trap of exposition—she succeeds in capturing the essence of a budding relationship, not the deep, complex flavor of it. Her script finds a popular American action film star (Bill Murray) in Tokyo to do some advertisements for a whiskey company; he meets the stranded young American wife (Scarlett Johansson) of a photographer (Giovanni Ribisi) and together they stumble into a relationship borne partly of their isolation and partly out of growing frustrations with their respective marriages. For all the usual observations and forced absurditities about foreign countries (naturally, the Japanese are seen as odd and other-worldly, pale imitations of Americans), Coppola’s script is smart: she has insights that belie her youth and she circles the awkward relationship, allowing it to sneak up on you; by the end, even though it’s still awkward, it’s become accessible and you can easily infer what she doesn’t want to tell you. Coppola gets an excellent performance from Johansson and a superior one from Murray; she seems to have captured him at a vulnerable point in his life—he’s so in tune with his character’s alienation that it appears to reflect his current point of view and not merely a function of the role. It also helps that he’s frequently hilarious: his deadpan confusion gives the film a cinematic boost that makes Coppola’s film seem less weighted down by its prose. It’s a gently lulling picture, with unhurried rhythms; you never suffer the demand to feel that so many modern romantic films constantly thrust upon you and though there’s an ambiguous, huddled ending, Coppola openly invites you to share your interpretation with her.

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