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Thread: Kill Bill vol. 2

  1. #16
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    Thanks for clearing that up; and I checked and you're right, though I still have to figure out how it works, since I doubt very much that QT is fluent in Chinese. Can you explain that?

    As I said, this is explained, about the Shaw Brothers, the Shaolin series and Gordon Liu, in Dave Kehr's "Kill Bill Vol. 2: a bluffer's guide, published in the NYTimes a week or so ago. However, Kehr doesn't point out that Tarantino does a voice for Liu.

    Again, I recommend the Dave Kehr cheat sheet, though it doesn't obviously explain everything about Vol. 2 that we may want to know:


    New York Times original source: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/11/mo...rtner=USERLAND
    also at The Age: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...?from=storyrhs
    Last edited by Chris Knipp; 04-22-2004 at 01:01 AM.

  2. #17
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    NO--QT doesn't do Pai Mei's voice

    Originally posted by HorshradishTree:
    One thing that IS true is that Tarantino does Pai Mei's voice. That's his only role, performance-wise, in the film.

    Not true.

    This is a mistake that got spread around because IMDb listed it that way for a while (they've corrected the error at the site). What happened was that originally QT wanted to have the dialogue in the Pai Mei sequence all done in badly post-sunk English like a Chinese martial arts movie with the actors mouthing words in Chinese, and then he would have dubbed the voice of Pai Mei (Gordon Liu). The idea was dropped but the mistaken attribution took hold.

    No way in hell could QT have done Pai Mei's voice. You think he speaks perfect Cantonese and Mandarin? Watch the scenes. I saw the movie again today and I have posted a review of it on my website for those who'd care to read it: http://www.chrisknipp.com/writing/vi....php?p=296#296

  3. #18
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    Hmm, thanks. I'm sorry for spreading the fallacy.
    "So I'm a heel, so what of it?"
    --Renaldo the Heel, from Crimewave

  4. #19
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    You were not alone--it was all over the Internet.

  5. #20
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    I finally saw the second half of Kill Bill about a week ago. My reaction to the film surprised me. Especially now, after reading the accolades from fellow members with whom I often agree. Johann rightly called it "talky" somewhere in the site. It's not only the amount of dialogue here but the way the delivery of the lines is slowed. Characters sound like they are convinced they are always saying something witty and clever. Everyone is a self-important wiseass. My least favorite, to put it mildly, film directed by QT comes six years after the last one. Not a good sign. It's a celebration of cruelty and revenge bereft of new ideas. The man-boy trying to outdo his favorite scenes from disposable action genres. I was prepared to watch a morally dubious movie full of implausibilities and one-dimensional characters. I did not prepare for banality after banality and a complete lack of any sense of surprise and discovery (particularly after the twist at the end of "volume 1"). There are many American directors who actually deserve the attention QT gets from the media.

  6. #21
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    I agree oscar

    I agree completely.

    One thing that struck me the third time I saw it was the fact that the story isn't all that great.

    So you have an assassination squad with a leader named Bill who has "relations" with a female member. She gets pregnant and has this epiphany that being an assassin is not exactly good for her baby.

    So she leaves town (and Bill). Bill is naturally unhappy about this. He "gets her back". QT made a 3-hour+ film based on this idea. Now, I have a very high regard for the Tarantula. He's a film freak, his intentions are good, I share his enthusiasm for cinema.

    But surely he could have come up with something more worthy? Kill Bill is inspired by chop-socky, Leone and Kurosawa, among other deities, but it's not simply enough for Tarantino to keep "outdoing his favorite scenes" as you say. He'll slip into the sea of predictability if he's not careful. In the future I never want to say "that was typical Tarantino". He's got skills that he's not tapping into- his cinema acumen is keen enough to be original AND honorary. Kubrick was original and honorary and you could never exactly pin-point his inspiration. Quentin is easily pegged and easily understood if you've seen a lot of films.
    I'm not saying I wouldn't watch his films if they settled into "typical Tarantino" (I would), but he's shown that he's capable of film originality without overwhelming medium reflection.

    We get it, Quentin: you love movies. Now let's see something really amazing from you.
    Last edited by Johann; 06-17-2004 at 03:48 PM.
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  7. #22
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    Originally posted by Johann
    One thing that struck me the third time I saw it was the fact that the story isn't all that great. QT made a 3-hour+ film based on this idea.But surely he could have come up with something more worthy?

    Exactly. It's too rehashed and thin a premise to spread over the 4 hours and 7 minutes duration of the combined "volumes". But somehow there are many out there who love it. IMDb voters have placed vol. 1 at 76th and vol. 2 at 122th best film of all time!
    I was forced to read The New Yorker because it was the only choice of reading material at the vet's office yesterday. Denby wrote that QT has "lost his ear" for dialogue, which becomes a huge problem in vol. 2, with long stretches of blab sprouting from poseurs masquerading as characters.

  8. #23
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    Dialogue over Action

    It was the action in the Part One that detracted away from the real acting and the dialogue "talking" that I enjoyed in Part Two that made this section of the movie resonant. Action only goes so far towards character development that I was so glad to see become more insightful in Part Two. Kill Bill, particularly Part Two remains one of my top choices of this year. It looks like I'm going to have to wait for Part Two to come out on DVD before I can definitely claim to know what the critics of critics are talking about.

  9. #24
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    There is no doubt that Carradine in Kill Bill 2 is a bit of a windbag at times. There is no doubt that the length of the battle in the nightclub in Kill Bill 1 is a bit over the top. Neither of these shortcomings or longgoings is sufficient to mar the wonderfulness of these two connected films. If there is anything more cinematic and entertaining produced during the past two years I haven't heard about it.

  10. #25
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    Amen on that Chris.

    We can be nitpicky because we love the films. If I met QT we'd get along like hammer and nail.

    I gotta get my mind off of this political shit. It's not me.
    My world isn't affected one iota by Bush, Cheney, Saddam, Paul Martin or even Al Franken. Politics is brutally nasty, and "it's not my bag, baby".

    Where's everybody else's impressions on Fahrenheit? Surely they've seen it by now. I guess canadians are the only ones who feel strongly enough to speak up! *nudge nudge* :)



    Kill Bill vol. 1 was on TV yesterday. I love that one. Vol. 2 is just not rockin' enough for me. It's great, I love it, it's a perfect match for Vol. 1, but I was expecting serious bombast. I got serious backstory.

    I'm knocking QT! Please don't anybody think I'm critcizing the man- I hold him in high regard for what he's done for cinema and I'm allowed to lament!
    "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun" - Pink Floyd

  11. #26
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    I don't feel your disappointment with Kill Bill 2 because I think 2 is as good as 1. Maybe you prefer 1 because the whole idea was all new and fresh when you first saw it. What's wrong with backstory? In my view, backstory is the essence of the Tarantino style -- as I said in writing about Kill Bill on my site. But anyway, -- you and I seem to be the most pro-QT pro-Kill Bill people here at FilmWurld --

    Just returned from 3 weeks on the E. Coast Wed. and didn't see Farenheit 9/11 till Tuesday. I expect to write about it and reply specifically to its critics when I get back up to speed-- just give me a minute.

  12. #27
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    I don't have anything against his movies. In fact, Vol. 2 blew my pants off. But please, Quentin, for the sake of your morality, get a darn lesson in humility!
    "So I'm a heel, so what of it?"
    --Renaldo the Heel, from Crimewave

  13. #28
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    But please, Quentin, for the sake of your morality, get a darn lesson in humility!

    1. What morality?

    2. I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree, HorseRadish. That's not his style.

  14. #29
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    I should have used a different word. But it was around 1 am when I wrote that and things were twirling around in my head.

    I'm really not directing any of that at his films. They're great the way they are. But the guy could be a little more humble when talking about his films. We know they're fantastic, and he doesn't have to tell us.
    "So I'm a heel, so what of it?"
    --Renaldo the Heel, from Crimewave

  15. #30
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    I was just kidding. I knew what you meant. But I repeat, humility is just not QT's style or personality. He's full of himself and his enthusiasms -- it's more enthusiasm than ego, I think-- and there's no repressing that.

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